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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Visit to UGCC Chapel orthodoxsinner2 12/10/19 04:17 AM
Looks like their is also a Ruthenian presence here. I attended their liturgy in Omaha this past Saturday. From what i can gather they alternate weekly between using a RC Church in Omaha and St George's UGCC in Lincoln.
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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Patriarch Bartholomew says reunion with Catholics is inevitable Ray S. 12/08/19 11:06 PM
Good points Bob
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Sts. Peter and Paul, Granville, NY Fr. Al 12/07/19 07:52 PM
I've seen that site. In fact, I've visited the museum and become a member. Still, I have yet to hear from anyone directly associated with the parish. My guess is that the grandchildren and great-grandchildren have moved away or fallen away. Its similar here in Western PA; Orthodox, Greek Catholic, and Roman Catholic churches report similar experiences. An OCA parish in Dixonville is now a private home or apartments, I don't remember which. The parish closed, but the nearby Ukrainian Orthodox church is still functioning. A Byzantine Catholic church in Coal Run is now a private home, but one can clearly see that it used to be an Eastern church. After the congregation here in Black Lick moved into the new church building in 1980, the old church was torn down in 1982. We survive, but in much smaller numbers than in 1980.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: For my wife facing hip replacement surgery Administrator 12/07/19 05:27 PM
Lord, have mercy!

Sorry to hear about Jan's fall. She (and you and John) continue to be in my prayers daily.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: For my wife facing hip replacement surgery Thomas the Seeker 12/07/19 04:09 PM
Life can change quickly.

We had a couple of good months--great months, really--from the Dormition Fast until the beginning of the Nativity Fast.

Midafternoon December 5, my phone rings with Jan’s identifier, only it is Mary D. on the line telling me that Jan had fallen and was in terrible pain “please hurry”. With John’s excellent help, with the help of all the “stamping ladies” I was able to deliver her to OSS; with megadynamis she able to transfer from car to wheelchair so as to be treated where the care would be best.

And such care as will be needed! Obviously the osteoporosis has accelerated, for a misstep down a nine inch step resulted in 3 fractures (plus dislocation) of the right ankle and 2 fractures of the left ankle.

Surgery cannot be performed until the swelling has decreased. In the meantime, absolutely minimal weight bearing on the left just for transfers from chair to wheelchair to toilet and positively none on the right.

Uncomplicated surgery (tentatively scheduled for December 16) will require 6 to 8 weeks recovery....and additional surgery(s) may be needed.

All this while still regaining strength from the hip surgeries earlier this year.
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Parish Life & Evangelization Jump to new posts
Re: Confusion about dissenters. theophan 12/07/19 01:13 AM
AllCatholic:

Christ is in our midst!!

I don't want you to think that I wanted to minimize your concern about the situation you witnessed. I also totally agree with the posts you have added subsequently. We can judge behaviors that are evil; it is judging another's MOTIVES that get us in trouble. The person in question may have an unformed conscience or have some other moral defect that only the Lord can see. However, that does not let us off the hook for witnessing to the truth we have received. Remember what the Lord said about those who are lukewarm? He will vomit them out of His Mouth.

I happen to be in support of the priest who refused to distribute the Lord to Joe Biden for his obstinate support of abortion.

Bob
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Saint Josaphat and Saint Job side-by-side griego catolico 12/06/19 09:44 PM
There's a Ukrainian Catholic parish somewhere in the U.S. or Canada which depicts Saint Josaphat Kuntsevych and Saint Job of Pochaev standing side-by-side on the wall of the church interior. There was lettering in English identifying each saint.
There was a photo taken of these saints and posted on its parish website.
This was years ago and I'm interested in seeing it again, but can't remember which Ukrainian Catholic parish it was.
Does anyone on this forum know which Ukrainian Catholic parish this is?
Thank you for any assistance given.
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Re: Pagan tradition in the church? Utroque 12/05/19 09:22 PM
Speaking of trees, saw this wonderful video about a church of forests in Ethiopia I'd like to share:

Church of Forests
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Parish Life & Evangelization Jump to new posts
Re: Confusion about dissenters. AllCatholic 12/04/19 09:18 PM
Update: The person of concern has attended Divine Liturgy for a few weeks now and is receiving the Eucharist.

When the killing of human beings in the womb get swept under the rug like this, I find it difficult to participate in other efforts. So, after ten years of service,
I stepped down from all the work I do for the parish (internal and external communications and publicity responsibilities). I do plan to continue to attend Divine Liturgy
and other services. It looks like I will be taking theophan's prayer suggestion exclusively to heart, for all involved, especially the babies killed in the womb
due to this person's ProAbort beliefs/actions.

I compiled some of the Church's/church's views on abortion during this situation. I would like to share them here for others, especially because the first two are taken directly from Melkite literature.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the Melkite Eparchy's web site, melkite.org:

"Each time we prepare to receive the Holy Mysteries of Christ's spotless Body and precious blood we pray,
in the words of St. John Chrysostom, that they may "be not for our judgment or condemnation." It is impossible
to receive Christ, our Life, in Holy Communion and remain obstinately pro abortion.
Indeed, politicians who,
by their actions (i.e. voting, speeches, etc.), promote abortion cooperate with evil. If they receive Holy Communion
without sincere repentance they do so at the peril of their own souls. Such is cause for great scandal." ~ Former Melkite Bishop John A. Elya


~ https://melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-...ho-support-pro-abortion-stances-and-laws
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please see the article starting on p. 20 of our Eparchy's Fall 2017 Edition of the Sophia Journal. https://melkite.org/sophia-issue/sophia-fall-2017
Its title is "ROE v. WADE: Abortion Won the Day, but Sooner or Later That Day Will End." Excerpts:

"In the 43 years since Roe v. Wade, there have been 59 million [it's more than 60 million now] abortions. It’s hard even to grasp a number that big. Twenty
years ago, someone told me that, if the names of all those lost babies were inscribed on a wall, like the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, the wall would have to stretch for 50 miles."

"When people say the unborn is 'not a person' or 'not a life' they mean that it has not yet grown or gained abilities that arrive later in life."

"Abortion indisputably ends a human life."

"In time, it’s going to be impossible to deny that abortion is violence against children. Future generations, as they look back, are not necessarily going to go easy on ours."

"In fact, the kind of hatred that people now level at Nazis and slave-owners may well fall upon our era. Future generations can accurately say, 'It’s not like they didn’t know.'
They can say, 'After all, they had sonograms.' They may consider this bloodshed to be a form of genocide. They might judge our generation to be monsters."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance."
~ [color:#3333FF]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm[/color]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"Let all that you do be done in love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)


Please forgive, and point out, any errors. Peace.
.
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Parish Life & Evangelization Jump to new posts
Re: Confusion about dissenters. AllCatholic 12/04/19 05:19 PM
Hello. Thank you for your reflections. You clearly put some time and thought into sharing them. I am very grateful for your perspectives. They are so valuable and necessary at times. I have heard similar suggestions and cautions from others. The ideas resonate with me, however, I believe they may be limited - at times - in effectiveness. Let me address some of your them. (Beforehand, I want you to know that I share these reflections here after the situation has been resolved, which was not by withholding the Eucharist. I will share what happened in a follow up post where you will see reference to worthy reception of the Eucharist..)

1) I am inspired by the story you described in The Desert Fathers. I have been praying for this person's conversion, as well as the conversion of the priest and all the parishioners who are uneducated, lax, or outright ProAbort about the horrors of abortion, i.e., the killing of human beings in the womb. I assessed the situation and thought it was time to take action in the physical world, much like a parent would, and is expected to, discipline her child, in conjunction with praying for them. If one doesn't like the parent/child analogy, we can use adult/relative or friend, because even as adults, we are called to appropriately judge others' behaviors and take action along with praying for them.Those who fought in religious/Christian wars come to mind. Our Church would not be the same had they only prayed and not taken action. Or Martin Luther King, or those folks who helped the Jews and slaves survive. I imagine you can envision many examples of this.

2) I understand what you say about judging our neighbor and not seeing our own sin. That is always a risk when we judge another person's behavior, but we are called to judge behaviors, as Jesus did many times, and that is as a person or a parent or teacher, etc. Along the way, I checked in with a couple priests in an attempt to ensure that is what I was doing. In the end, action and prayer are not always exclusive.

Again, thank you for taking time to reflect here. I am grateful.
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Pagan tradition in the church? Thomas the Seeker 12/04/19 02:51 PM
Some of the earliest decorations used on evergreens in the home were natural fruits and berries, especially apples. Thge trees were sometimes called "Paradise trees" as a reminder of the Fall and thus the necessity of our Redeemer's Incarnation.

Almanacks which list the very old Menaion dates still include "Adam and Eve" on December 24.
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Pagan tradition in the church? Utroque 12/03/19 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by hydra
Hello
First off some history
" Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmas time."

"Modern Christmas trees originated during the Renaissance of early modern Germany. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Protestant Christian reformer Martin Luther, who is said to have first added lighted candles to an evergreen tree."

"Pope John Paul II introduced the Christmas tree custom to the Vatican in 1982. Although at first disapproved "

The Orthodox church / Bible is against tradition of man. Yet the church is following tradition of man. The only Tradition that is allowed is the tradition of the church for therapeutic reasons. If all the bibles in the world vanished the only church that will stand is the Orthodox church they say since it relies on its Orthodox traditions and no the bible some say.

Now to have a Christmas tree is not part of the Orthodox tradition, or christian tradition, or biblical tradition. Sure it is now in some aspects but it was not when it first started. Sure it looks nice but again its out of place when done inside the Church. It use to be not allowed, to done at home, to done outside the church, to done in the church banquet room, to inside the church. So whats next church services about the tree. Where is this Christian tradition? or does tradition not matter anymore?


Christ turned tables over for people doing things in the church when it should be outside, despite improper.


Contrary to your implications, friend, Orthodox and Catholic Christians neither worships nor venerates trees, wreathes or any other of the paraphernalia associated with Christmas, but simply place them in their homes and churches as an acknowledgement of the festivity associated with the Season. They have also been used, as others have said, as instruments of evangelization, when these things proved beneficial. Think of St. Patrick using the shamrock to illustrate the mystery of the Trinity. Druids may have worshiped the shamrock, but I'm sure the saint did not.
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Pagan tradition in the church? Irish_Ruthenian 12/03/19 09:57 PM
Holy John Owen and Puritanism, Batman!!!

Sheeesh!!!! Some people will find anything they can to get their knickers in a knot!!
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Please help us update the "Links to Parish Home Pages" Administrator 12/03/19 08:19 PM
Updates made. Many thanks for the input.

If anyone has some free time, we need a volunteer to click through all entries on the Links to Parish Home Pages. Website URLs change frequently and it is difficult to keep up with all the changes. Each should open in a new window. Post any changes here.

For those parishes where the URL has expired I have removed it, but left the entry. It's possible they have a new site. Thanks.
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Re: Pagan tradition in the church? Administrator 12/03/19 08:05 PM
Through his resurrection Christ renewed all creation. He made all things new. The Church rightly utilizes the symbols found in creation to proclaim the Gospel.
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Great Lenten celebrations with neighboring parishes Augoustinos 12/03/19 05:34 PM
Thanks for the info. I'll definitely talk to him. I think that, in addition to Vespers, getting people to come out to any divine service is getting tougher and tougher. Lots of the older folks are hitting their limit of ability to attend every week, or they are dying. Most younger people move away from the parish they grew up in or find convenience in simply going to a closer Roman Catholic Church.

I can't speak for other UGC Churches, but my parish rarely holds vespers or matins for the exact reason you stated - they aren't eucharistic celebrations.
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Re: Pagan tradition in the church? theophan 12/03/19 05:07 PM
Christ is in or midst!!

hydra, welcome to the forum.

Your story about the tradition of the Christmas tree not being Orthodox is far from correct. St. Boniface (680–754), known in Church history as the Apostle to the Germans, was the first to use a fir tree to point out in his evangelizing work in what is today Germany that the God we worship is one that does not die each year but remains alive pointing toward heaven. St. Bonaventure is as much an Orthodox saint as any other from the period when Christendom was not marred by the schism.

Bob
Moderator
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Pagan tradition in the church? hydra 12/03/19 01:20 AM
Hello
First off some history
" Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmas time."

"Modern Christmas trees originated during the Renaissance of early modern Germany. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Protestant Christian reformer Martin Luther, who is said to have first added lighted candles to an evergreen tree."

"Pope John Paul II introduced the Christmas tree custom to the Vatican in 1982. Although at first disapproved "

The Orthodox church / Bible is against tradition of man. Yet the church is following tradition of man. The only Tradition that is allowed is the tradition of the church for therapeutic reasons. If all the bibles in the world vanished the only church that will stand is the Orthodox church they say since it relies on its Orthodox traditions and no the bible some say.

Now to have a Christmas tree is not part of the Orthodox tradition, or christian tradition, or biblical tradition. Sure it is now in some aspects but it was not when it first started. Sure it looks nice but again its out of place when done inside the Church. It use to be not allowed, to done at home, to done outside the church, to done in the church banquet room, to inside the church. So whats next church services about the tree. Where is this Christian tradition? or does tradition not matter anymore?


Christ turned tables over for people doing things in the church when it should be outside, despite improper.
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Great Lenten celebrations with neighboring parishes Administrator 12/02/19 11:01 PM
Hi Augoustinos,

Your pastor is the one to answer the questions on the guidelines on how to go about organizing an inter-eparchial event. If he is not sure he can ask his bishop.

Such things do happen. I don't know if it is still ongoing, but for many years the Scranton area parishes (Ruthenian, Ukrainian and Melkite) held held a week long mission during the Great Fast (one night at each parish with a common theme and retreat master).

I have recommended for decades that something like this be done in as many places as is possible. Sunday Lenten Vespers (either in the most convenient parish or alternating parishes) would be an excellent idea. There would be a theme but the talks would be short (maybe 20 minutes). Afterward a light reception (coffee and a lenten dish).

One of the issues generating enthusiasm is that people generally don't think of Vespers as a service worth going to since there is no Eucharist. We've taught generations of people that services without Eucharist don't count. The only way to turn that around is to pray Vespers and other services well and be happy with a dozen people. Let the Lord work on getting more people there.

John
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Please help us update the "Links to Parish Home Pages" Utroque 12/02/19 09:32 PM
Perhaps you can add the little UGCC that my wife and I attend in Salem, Massachusetts

St. John the Baptist
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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Patriarch Bartholomew says reunion with Catholics is inevitable Utroque 12/02/19 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
How will this wonderful little pasture of roses and ecumenical butterflies come to pass when the Latin Church holds to teachings that were. A.) never taught by the Early Church B.) a direct result of Rome becoming more of a political than religious empire
C.) the Papal Reformation of the 11th century, in which Rome showed Her utter contempt and arrogance towards the East and D.) cause massive theological, soteriological, and anthropological problems for believers who take the faith seriously?


Well, I certainly do not think it will come about by clawing at and scowling about our liturgical practices and reforms that may have taken place centuries ago, and when we did what to whom. Is it not time to heal the deep wounds that have been inflicted by both sides? The Church needs truthful and humble dialogue, not stern warnings not to participate in the monastic Evensong of the "other side" because they baptize by pouring and not immersion and other such inconsequentials. This believer is in the dark. Can you tell me what those massive theological, soteriological and anthropological problems are for believers who take the faith seriously?
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Re: Please help us update the "Links to Parish Home Pages" Augoustinos 12/02/19 06:21 PM
Holy Ghost Ukrainian Catholic Church
315 4th St
Easton, PA 18042
http://www.holyghost-ukrainian-catholic.org/

Saint John the Baptist Ukrainian Catholic Church
1343 Newport Avenue
Northampton, PA 18067
https://www.facebook.com/st.johnthebaptistnorthampton/

Saint Vladimir Ukrainian Catholic Church
101 Lehigh Avenue
Palmerton, PA 18071

Also, where is the "Links to Parish Home Pages" page? This one here http://www.byzcath.org/index.php/resources/directories/parish-home-pages-mainmenu-92 says it was last updated Nov 17.
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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Patriarch Bartholomew says reunion with Catholics is inevitable Irish_Ruthenian 12/02/19 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by Utroque
The stern voices of this Orthodox Christian website, linked above, echo the dark past; while that of His Beatitude represents the bright present and still brighter future. God bless that gathering for Vespers at Rochefort, Belgium! I'm an optimist: the Holy Spirit will won out perhaps sooner than we think. The official Catholic/Orthodox dialogue has reached its 40th year and has born fruitful results. I feel certain that the Moscow patriarchate's rumblings will fail and fall as quickly as the Iron Curtain and Berlin Wall.


So that's what holding to the truth is to you - "stern voices?" Mean-spirited men who do not understand that we must put love above any and all forms of truth?

How will this wonderful little pasture of roses and ecumenical butterflies come to pass when the Latin Church holds to teachings that were. A.) never taught by the Early Church B.) a direct result of Rome becoming more of a political than religious empire
C.) the Papal Reformation of the 11th century, in which Rome showed Her utter contempt and arrogance towards the East and D.) cause massive theological, soteriological, and anthropological problems for believers who take the faith seriously?

I would be very interested in your take on how this is going to happen without Rome recanting everything they invented after the 11th century and going into a truly ecumenical council with a humble heart ready to accept the decisions of the united council.
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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Patriarch Bartholomew says reunion with Catholics is inevitable Utroque 12/02/19 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by theophan
Christ is in our midst!!


But I do bow to the miracle of how the Holy Spirit can work.


It will be no miracle. Was it not an abandonment of the Holy Spirit that caused the split? We need to work with Him to heal the split, and that is exactly what His Beatitude and the Bishop of Rome, among many, are doing. Your lamentations about Latin Catholic praxis might be echoed by an experience my wife and I had in Greece a number of years ago. We enthusiastically went to a large Orthodox church for Vespers on the vigil of Pentecost: besides the priest, deacon and cantor, we were the only ones in church. The morning Divine Liturgy saw six more in attendance. Last May in Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia, I was startled when most of the congregation went outside for a smoke and conversation rather than approach the Chalice, only to return after several had received. Fasting? Please.

I think there's a winnowing process going on in the Latin church, and much fruit will come. I find it very interesting that His Beatitude led Athonite monks to a Cistercian monastery in Belgium. Perhaps it will be monks, eastern and western together, who will see us through this morass. As it is said, the Spirit leads where He wills.
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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Patriarch Bartholomew says reunion with Catholics is inevitable theophan 12/02/19 02:17 PM
Christ is in our midst!!

A note on the parish web page for Holy Transfiguration Melkite parish gave me another thought. A mention that Latin Catholics who were chrismated were welcome to receive Holy Communion at the parish.

There are a number of Latin Catholics who have skipped confirmation because it is now, in many cases, not celebrated until the end of one's high school years. There are many reasons for this, including the time demands on young people in this age bracket.

How do Orthodox Christians view this? The separation of confirmation and first Eucharist was made in 1910 by Pope St Pius X who had hoped that the bishops would confirm earlier than the age of 12--common at that time. First Eucharist was only given after confirmation until his indult permitted First Communion prior to confirmation. Now there are some Catholics who have come to believe that this latter sacrament is not necessary.

Bob
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