The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Monik, Chathasaigh, +Bishop Gregory, SouthernTransplant, Devin1890
5590 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (theophan), 70 guests, and 426 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Forum Statistics
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
Town Hall
06/25/19 01:21 PM
Christ is in our midst!!

The videos are a set of six or seven that detail life in Valaam in Russia.

2 72 Read More
06/25/19 12:05 PM
Episcopus Teemu, 72, has retaired as The Bishop of Helsinki and All Finland in May.
Fr Marco Pasinato acts as The administrator.
Many years, episcopus emeritus Teemu! Monia armorikkaita vuosia! Multos annos!
13 1,975 Read More
Faith & Theology
06/25/19 12:53 AM
Christ is in our midst!!

What if we turn the tables? What chance would a Protestant have of engaging us in dialogue about this issue if he insisted that we were caught in the Devil's idolatry on this issue?

IMHO, none. So my point is that we need to avoid language that is inflammatory or derogatory if we wish to speak to our brethren who do not have the faith gift that we have. We still must recognize that the others have a deep love for Christ and are not afraid of publicly speaking of it--something that we in the Apostolic Churches seem not to do; it's not part of how we are taught to operate.

10 240 Read More
Church News
06/24/19 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Yes, that is what I look like. I've been trying to pretend I'm a dashing young man and now the Administrator has exposed me!

Please let me know what you think of this. Don't hold back your critical comments.


3 443 Read More
Church News
06/18/19 11:57 AM
Dear Cantor:

It is now almost summer and preparations are well underway for the 85th Annual Pilgrimage to Our Lady of Perpetual Help at Mount Saint Macrina in Uniontown, Pennsylvania. The Pilgrimage will take place beginning Friday, August 30, 2019 through and including Monday, September 2, 2019.

You are once again cordially invited to be a part of this special event in the life of the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church in the United States.

How can you participate?

To streamline the process for the 2019 Annual Pilgrimage, we are asking Cantors interested in singing to complete the Online Cantor Participation Form located on the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh’s website.

The form is located at:

Please complete the Online Form and submit your response by Friday, July 19, 2019.

May God bless you with continued health, happiness, and good voice, and may the Most Holy Theotokos continue to protect you as you serve in this valuable ministry of our Church.


Joseph K. Ferenchick, MBA
Member, Inter-Eparchial Commission for Sacred Music

Head Cantor, Annual Pilgrimage to the Shrine of our Lady of Perpetual Help – Uniontown, PA

Cantor, Holy Ghost Byzantine Catholic Church – Philadelphia, PA
0 108 Read More
Town Hall
06/17/19 11:03 PM
New website:

Las Vegas, NV: St. Gabriel the Archangel Catholic Church (Byzantine Rite)
36 51,412 Read More
The Christian East & West
06/13/19 08:24 PM
Silk, my screen name here is Anaphora. I have read your post. I have carefully read your post and I am beginning to see the plight that you are in. It is a difficult decision to make. No one can make it for you. You must make it yourself.
I was born into the Roman Catholic Church, received all (most) of its sacraments, married into the Roman Catholic Church. Then, while at University, I was exposed to Eastern Catholicism and began to attend a Byzantine Catholic Church (Ruthenian rite) in my neighborhood. Now, I find myself in two Catholic Churches- one eastern and one western. I have also attended Orthodox liturgies and found them to be based upon the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom with which I knew well. But I was not eligible to receive Eucharist in the Orthodox churches. This made me feel ;most unwelcome. I tried to befriend the Greek Orthodox pastor of the church near me but he regards my church, the Catholic Church, as being in heresy- not theologically but because supreme authority was given to the Bishop of Rome, the Pope as opposed to a sharing of power as is done among Orthodox bishops. Aslo, the doctrine of papal infallibility was another reason why he regarded the Catholic Church as heretical.
I believe that both Churches, Orthodox and Catholic, are true and valid Churches, with true and valid sacraments with very few theological differences but, however, significant differences in tradition and church laws.
High level church men, 1000 years ago, caused the schism that separated these true Churches from each other. The same high level church men, today, must meet together and calculate, with the grace and wisdom of the Holy Spirit, to reunite these holy Churches together as they were 1000 years ago. The unholy schism would then be reversed and heaven would rejoice!
I further believe that in the search for God and search for the truth, there are different paths that ultimately lead to God, truth, and goodness.
Pray, pray hard, Silk. You will find your answer. It will be revealed to you in some way.
Agape, my friend.
19 1,146 Read More
The Christian East & West
06/12/19 10:50 PM
It’s in his commentary,Eastern Catholic Church Law, revised edition, but his opinion wouldn’t apply to situations in the US.

His commentary on the CCEO was published in the 1990’s and he took into consideration the problems faced by Eastern Catholic Churches that were officially outlawed by secular governments.

The CCEO expresses in precise terms under what type of circumstances permission may be “presumed.”
5 321 Read More
Town Hall
06/09/19 11:21 PM
About 30 minutes into feed:
Divine Liturgy - June 9, 2019

The story of the three men on the island touch me and I HAD to share!

0 149 Read More
Town Hall
06/08/19 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
O Lord!...And my critique of the errors of the Latin Church does not mean that there are not people in it who love Jesus far more than I ever will in my disordered life. It simply means that there are things in it with which the Early Fathers would not agree.
You have already formed the verdict then, the "errors"? You think the Patristic witness is monolithic? It is not. You think the faith of the Church is established by a Patristic synthesis (though it is an important component)? It is not. Purgatory is an innovation but not Toll Houses? You think the Church properly developed doctrine through eight centuries and then stopped? You (and others) limit God in the scope of His plan of salvation -- can't be an Immaculate Conception? Merit is denied but the East is more accommodating to what is considered Pelagian tendencies?

There is still a Ruthenian Recension and Carpathian chant tradition: Liturgicons (in translation) can always be improved. "Teal Terror" caught on but it's an unfortunate misnomer; it was originally dubbed the "Teal Tyrant" on this forum (by me) since it was inflexible and draconian in its selection. It has done a lot of good but could have been done better in keeping with the chant traditionS. It has given us needed improvements (for instance Ressurectional Troparia Tone 3 and 8; the eight tones for the "Our Father" and Alleluia, etc.) and overall availability. The work for improvement and restoration can still continue. As happens too often, extremes catch on and prevail: the difference between the characterizations of "Terror" and "Tyrant" is the difference between flame and light.

I find that selective reading and prejudicial considerations make conclusions easy and straightforward but wrong.

Toll Houses???

Vain Fantasy that a great number of Orthodox reject out of hand.
A great number? Not all?

Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Never found in the writings of the Early Fathers.
As I've said and say again, the faith of the Church is not established on Patristic writings although they are a very important witness.

Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
The Church developed doctrine. It didn't invent new doctrines out of whole cloth.

Have you ever actually listened to an Orthodox priest explain the problems with the Immaculate Conception? No. Of course you haven't.
Here you presume to have knowledge of things that you do not know. A trend?

Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
They are many and they go to the heart of our anthropology and soteriology, not to mention they take away from the glory of the Theotokos by making Her unable to sin. Once Her choice to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in holiness is taken away, She becomes an entirely different person than we are, and this creates a real problem when you think of the fact that Jesus gets His human flesh, given for the salvation of the world, from Her. If She is not human and born as we are, then the whole thing runs off the rails.
You apparently have accepted a caricature of the doctrine, perhaps the uncritical acceptance of the biased explanation of that Orthodox priest I didn't consult.

Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
I won't even TRY to dignify what the bishops of the Ruthenians did to the Liturgy with the Teal Monstrosity.
The Teal book is primarily a book of chant. The scope of the chant there is far beyond what I, as an aspiring cantor, yearned for in the early 80s. It's implementation, like the liturgicon, was heavy-handed but at least it was less arbitrary. I look upon it as a work in progress. In 2007, as a deacon, I requested and accepted inactive status rather than celebrate using the liturgicon. I know and have experienced the issues and the misrepresentations first hand.

Many difficulties do not necessarily add up to a doubt. Question and keep searching and hear out all sides of the issues.

31 3,414 Read More
Scripture and Patristic Writings
06/06/19 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
LOL! Well, not exactly. I think we need a center of unity for the entire Church. My issue is not with having a single focused person who is the center of unity, but rather in the juridical manner in which that office plays out. And from what I have read, this is the Orthodox position also. Seems to me a "First Among Equals" who is truly "A Servant to God's Servant" would not be a bad thing. Having that servant heart, you know.

But.....there are a lot of other fish to fry in this mix also. Kind of sad, really. I remember my godmother coming back from an ecumenical meeting several years ago and telling me that as she listened to the various speakers drone on and on and on, she said she just wanted to stand up and scream "Stop talking and put our Church back together." I think a lot of us feel that way.

Godmothers and grandmothers are always right! For a long time I have thought that the disunity between the western and eastern Apostolic and historically contiguous churches is a bishops problem, and that the burden is on them to "put the Church back together again" so to speak. Why there is no sense of urgency has often puzzled me. There seems to be a complacency that we are all "Unam Sanctam". We need a real Ecumenical Council now, or at least a permanent Synod of east and west to work out all the kinks that divide us! And they should not rest until they are done.
16 465 Read More
Church News
06/05/19 02:57 PM
Fantastic Homily. Deafening the omission of the media (already expected, the media distort and sustains the fiction of the "Progressive Pope"):

"The new Beati endured suffering and gave their lives to oppose an illiberal ideological system that oppressed the fundamental rights of the human person. In that tragic period, the life of the Catholic community was put to a harsh test by a dictatorial and atheistic regime. All the Bishops and faithful of the Greek-Catholic Church and those of the Latin-rite Catholic Church were persecuted and imprisoned"

"Dear brothers and sisters, today, too, we witness the appearance of new ideologies that quietly attempt to assert themselves and to uproot our peoples from their richest cultural and religious traditions. Forms of ideological colonization that devalue the person, life, marriage and the family (cf. Amoris Laetitia, 40), and above all, with alienating proposals as atheistic as those of the past, harm our young people and children, leaving them without roots from which they can grow (cf. Christus Vivit, 78). Everything then becomes irrelevant unless it serves our immediate interests; people are led to take advantage of others and treat them as mere objects (cf. Laudato Si’, 123-124). Those voices, by sowing fear and division, seek to cancel and bury the best that the history of these lands have bequeathed to you."

"I would like to encourage you to bring the light of the Gospel to our contemporaries and to continue, like these Beati, to resist these new ideologies now springing up. It is our turn to struggle now, as it was theirs to struggle in their time. May you be witnesses of freedom and mercy, allowing fraternity and dialogue to prevail over divisions, and fostering the fraternity of blood that arose in the period of suffering, when Christians, historically divided, drew closer and more united to one another."
15 1,458 Read More
Faith & Theology
06/04/19 12:00 AM
I can’t speak to the instruction in your prayer book, but I know what I pray from the Psalms:

Psalm 3:5
I lay down and slept;
I woke again, for the LORD sustained me.

Psalm 121:2-4
My help comes from the LORD,
who made heaven and earth.
He will not let your foot be moved;
he who keeps you will not slumber.
Behold, he who keeps Israel
will neither slumber nor sleep.

So He who watches over you 24/7 is not put off by how you look or smell in the morning. Now if you’re a monk who has personal hygiene issues, your brother monks will no doubt have a great deal to say how you look and smell in the morning. Incense wasn’t used in the cell during person prayer.
3 224 Read More
The Christian East & West
06/03/19 01:42 PM

[Linked Image]

Further discussion on Metropolitan Jonah and other clergy wearing white can be found over at the Forum: link.
5 243 Read More
Scripture and Patristic Writings
05/30/19 09:21 PM
Thank you, ajk, for the correction and the explanation.
3 172 Read More
05/29/19 03:43 PM
Dear Thomas,

Patience is a virtue and a blessing to you! ;-)

I am glad that your wife is doing a bit better.
I pray that she will come to a full recovery.

Be well,
22 1,881 Read More
Faith & Theology
05/28/19 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by silk

*If you are familiar with these issues;
--Would you please explain to me the main points of objection which the author (=Chrysostom Koutloumousianos) raises against Zizioulas?
--Do you think Zizioulas is reading back into the Fathers, and into the Church’s doctrine of the Trinity, a modern existentialist understanding of personhood?
I'd have to read his book to comment on the elder's criticism of Zizioulas. Zizioulas sees the Cappadocians as revolutionizing ontology. Even if this is not so, a sense of Person emerges, as developed by Zizioulas and others, that elegantly unifies theology and Christian anthropology, and is more fundamental than the "modern existentialist understanding of personhood."

I started to summarize the points but instead have attached part of my previous appraisal. It's a bit dated but it gives what I hope is an overview of some of the issues about which you are inquiring.
1 185 Read More
Faith & Theology
05/27/19 04:47 PM
Christ is Risen!!


The Romanian Orthodox prayerbook I have used for the past 46 years prints "For Thine is the Kingdom . . ." at the end of the Lord's Prayer. I'm sure that this is not some mistake and that lay people use it regularly.

5 379 Read More
Faith & Theology
05/27/19 12:30 PM
Christ is Risen!!

This thread has strayed far fro its original purpose and for that reason I am closing it on the request of a member.

26 2,275 Read More
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of Contents copyright - 1996-2019 (Forum 1998-2019). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.1.30 Page Time: 0.186s Queries: 6 (0.007s) Memory: 2.2907 MB (Peak: 2.3515 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2019-06-25 14:20:44 UTC