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The Other Sacramental Mysteries Jump to new posts
Re: Crowning Service in Electronic Format dochawk 09/22/21 11:51 PM
If nothing else comes up, check with Our Lady of Wisdom in Las Vegas. They seem to have *everything* already printed.
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Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Jump to new posts
Re: Tips for Newcomers dochawk 09/22/21 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by CuriousMarten
As someone who is above average in height, should I kneel to receive in the Ukrainian Byzantine Rite?.

Don't go as far as outright kneeling, but if he's awkwardly reaching up to you, sure bend a knee to reduce your height to a practical level.

Even with him on the Ambon, I'm a full head taller than my priest--and he's injured his right shoulder badly enough that he has to rely on a server to hold the other end of the cloth (name escapes me at the moment) over the gifts. I really have no idea how he makes it through the communion line (but it helps that he has the deacon distributing ss well)
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Parish Life & Evangelization Jump to new posts
Re: Welcoming Proponents of the 1962 Missal dochawk 09/22/21 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by ajk
"...almost everything", so what's ok?

The faith itself, of course!
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Old-Ritualists Forum Jump to new posts
Re: Priestless Old Believer church in Detroit theophan 09/22/21 09:13 PM
Christ is in our midst!!

Father Al,

Father bless!!

Have the Old Believers tried to reprint their service books? I have seen pictures of some of them, wonder how fragile they must be, and wonder how they will continue to hold up after all the years since they were published.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: Your Prayers Please theophan 09/22/21 09:09 PM
Christ is in our midst!!


Nicotine is a hard monkey to get off your back. Prayers for your success in ditching it. May I suggest sending for some St Nektarios oil from the St Nektarios Greek Orthodox Monastery in NY. St Nektarios is a wonderful saint who was credited with many miracles even during his lifetime.

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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: Byz Catholic Conscientious Objector statement melkite 09/22/21 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by jvf
All of these drugs were created before anyone ever even heard of STEM cell testing.
I follow Catholic Church Doctrine on Abortion.

So then you are only concerned with moral implications of a medicine or vaccine if it was tested using aborted STEM cells, but not aborted cells of ANY OTHER KIND? This makes no sense, and from a Catholic moral standpoint, the morality of using something tainted with one would be no different than the morality of using something tainted with the other.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
prayer request walter metrick 09/22/21 01:46 PM
I have been to the ER twice in the past few weeks.
Plus, I am having a stress test done tomorrow to see what, or if, there is blockage in my aortic valve.
I would greatly appreciate any prayers you send to the Lord on my behalf.
The tests begin tomorrow at 8:15 and can take up to three hours.
God Bless you all,
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Icons & Iconography Jump to new posts
Re: Mounting icon prints? theophan 09/21/21 09:10 PM
Christ is in our midst!!


Some of these new products save a lot of time. When I first began to look at decoupage work, people talked about applying as many as 22 thin coats of varnish over a print and rubbing them down between coast with very fine steel wool. Sounded like way too much work to me. The products I have used are one coat that is a little tricky to work with, but give the same finish as the 22 coat method.

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Prayer Jump to new posts
Prayers for Archbishop Jan Babyak of Presov Administrator 09/21/21 05:49 PM
Archbishop Ján Babjak tested positive for coronavirus

On Saturday, September 18, the Greek Catholic Archbishop Ján Babjak underwent an RT-PCR test for the presence of the coronavirus SARS-COV-2 and his result was positive. The archbishop immediately went into domestic quarantine, is vaccinated and has only mild symptoms of the disease.

We informed the KBS secretariat about the illness and subsequently all the bishops who may have been in contact with Bishop Ján Babjak SJ were informed. They were advised to undergo coronavirus testing as a precaution.

At the same time, we ask people to be aware of the common cold that comes with changing weather, as the symptoms of a new coronavirus infection may be similar. (Google translation)

The Archeparchy of Presov web site reports that Archbishop Jan Babjak, SJ has tested positive for covid 19 and is in quarantine.

Please pray for him, that the Lord God grant him a speedy and full recovery.

Lord, have mercy!
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: choosing among eastern catholic churches Michael_Thoma 09/18/21 02:00 AM
Hi brother, if you are in the US you'd have limited options for a Russian Catholic parish, so you'd be best suited wherever you can participate regularly. As to the second question, you can't escape the politics anywhere because it's an American situation so individuals with their own personal views will be present in every community, including priests and bishops who disagree on these matters. Papal documents might be less relevant in an Orthodox Church but people take as controversial documents from Metropolitan Hilarion or Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, so there's no escape this side of heaven from such things
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: Orthodox Marrying in the Eastern Catholic Church Irish Melkite 09/17/21 01:16 AM
Hi Sappy,

Again, welcome to the forum.

I'm going to give you a link to the USCCB (US Conference of Catholic Bishops) site - specifically to An Agreed Statement on Mixed Marriages. This is a product of the North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation. It's old, issued in 1971, one of the very first documents ever produced by the dialogue, yet it still reflects the joint agreement between the participant bodies to the dialogue.

Nothing in it will resolve either of your concerns - which turn on events that would transpire after the phase addressed here, but I thought it worthwhile to offer the background that the dialogue would have suggested.

As regards the marriage having been celebrated in an EC, rather than an EO, temple, you ask
what the Orthodox person must do to be able to get back into good standing with The Church?

And, as regards the children having been baptized and chrismated in that same EC temple, again with respect to the Orthodox spouse's standing iin his or her Church, you ask
how would this situation be resolved?

As my brother, Bob, said, both questions need to be addressed to a priest of the Chuch from which the Orthodox spouse originated (presumably, the same with which she or he seeks to reconcile - if not the same, to a priest of the Church with which reconciliation is sought). You are correct in your supposition that the children cannot be re-baptized or re-chrismated and I doubt that a repentant lapsed Orthodox spouse would be barred from the Mysteries until the children reach majority and choose between Churches. One would hope that charity and economy would not countenance such a result.

The answers to your questions, may indeed vary depending on the particulars of the Church and even the jurisdiction involved (and, although they shouldn't, perhaps on personalities). One should be able to say that the answers are X and Y and that there would be consistency across the board, but too many years witnessing too many variations make one leery of supposing that to be the case.

Many years,

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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: Discerning in the Byzantine Churches theophan 09/16/21 06:09 PM
Christ is in our midst!!


only allowing for the Eucharist under one species, and in the hand

I suspect that what you are seeing in Byzantine Catholic parishes--if this is truly the present case--is a modification of traditional practice in response to the Covid pandemic. I would not take such practices as being any kind of norm. We have had discussions about parishes in the United States modifying their practices in response to the pandemic, as well as some of our Orthodox brethren describing modifications to their practice. We have a dangerous virus loose and the practice of putting a single spoon into everyone's mouth has brought serious questions and reflection about Byzantine practice both in the Byzantine Catholic and Orthodox Churches. A temporary measure should not be something that puts you off. The alternative might be suspending the distribution of the Mysteries--a measure no one wants or would even consider.

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Church News Jump to new posts
Re: Pope in Slovakia ... ajk 09/15/21 04:19 PM
.. and I'd add Hungary too: 12 September 2021, Budapest, Holy Mass - Pope Francis. It's a Roman rite Mass but there is an Eastern/Byzantine and Ecumenical presence. I grew up in a Hungarian Roman-rite parish (50s-60s) and one of my fondest recollections is of the "Hungarian," i.e. the Sunday High Mass: Right after it concluded the Hungarian National Anthem was sung. Appropriately, it is a prayer, and is even called the Hymn, Himnusz. The opening words are Isten, áldd meg a Magyart (pronounced ma-jart), God bless the Hungarian-people. So I checked the video and it was indeed sung at 1:45:55. For me, both because of its pious words, addressing its cultural heritage and religious devotion, and its noble melody, it ranks at the very top as a historically-Christian nation's anthem. During its singing, the video appropriately shows a replica of the "Crown of St. Stephan", Holy Crown of Hungary. As explained in the link, It has an interesting connection with the US:
At the end of the Second World War the crown jewels were recovered in Mattsee, Austria, on 4 May 1945 by the U.S. 86th Infantry Division.[14] The crown jewels were transported to Western Europe and eventually given to the United States Army by the Hungarian Crown Guard for safekeeping from the Soviet Union.[15] For much of the Cold War the crown was held at the United States Bullion Depository (Fort Knox, Kentucky) alongside the bulk of America's gold reserves and other priceless historical items. After undergoing extensive historical research to verify the crown as genuine, it was returned to Hungary by order of U.S. President Jimmy Carter on 6 January 1978.[16]

Most current academic knowledge about Hungarian royal garments originates from this modern research. Following substantial U.S. political debate, the agreement to return the jewels contained many conditions to ensure the people of Hungary, rather than its Communist government, took possession of the jewels.[16] The majority of the Hungarian-American population opposed the decision to return the crown.[17] On January 6, 1978, US Secretary of State Cyrus Vance returned the Crown to Hungary in Budapest.[18]

I remember the controversy about Pres. Carter's decision at the time but, thankfully, it has turned out well.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: 4th Anniversary, Ron, spouse of Mary Jo/Porter Administrator 09/14/21 02:40 AM
May the Lord God grant Ron a peaceful and blessed repose.

Eternal Memory!
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Synodica V (Chambésy - Genève, Les Editions du Centre Orthodoxe, 1981) referenced by the Aleppo Statement, Towards a Common Date of Easter (TCDE), is entirely devoted to the calendar issue on a number of levels, not just the technical, astronomical. It is available as a pdf-download, 3.8MB, SYNODHIKA_5.pdf. It reveals that consideration was given to adoption of the Gregorian Calendar, and TCDE2025 should reexamine and reevaluate this option. It seems there is very little if any initiative by the Catholic Church in advocating the calendar and Paschalion that it initiated. To the extent this is so it is very unfortunate: the inability or unwillingness of the Catholic Church to offer a real service to the truth by standing up for and presenting the advantages and legitimacy of the Gregorian reform of 1582 and its calendar and Paschalion. The journey begun at Nicaea in 325 could properly, that is in the spirit and details of the Nicaean norm accepted by all, end with the adoption of the Gregorian Paschalion in 2025. This is not just idle talk, hyperbole, triumphalism or flamboyant rhetoric. It is eminently defendable and the Catholic Church should be taken to task for not advocating the Gregorian approach on its own merits, at least for the present and some considerable future time. The study Proceedings of the Vatican Conference to commemorate its 400th Anniversary, 1582-1982 should have a prominent place in the deliberations of TCDE2025. As its Preface states:

Although this book is published as a Commemoration of the 400th Anniversary of the Gregorian Reform of the Calendar, its nature is not simply commemorative but it is intended to serve as a stimulus to further reflection, scholarly or otherwise, upon the calendar. With hardly, I believe, an exception we all experience that strange phenomenon of the almost inverse proportionality between the importance of many common factors in our lives and the degree of attention that we give to them. Among such factors is the role of the calendar in our daily activities. How many of us give any attention to how and why the calendar is structured the way it is? Could it be structured otherwise, perhaps even better? Yet the calendar forms the basis for the rhythm of our various daily activities. We take holyday weekends, have blue Mondays, envy those who work bankers' hours and experience a host of other phenomena, all of which we take for granted. Do we reflect, for instance, that the duration of the hour and the length of the week have no basis in natural astronomical phenomena, even though both are of very long usage? The week, in fact, is the only calendar period which has survived all calendar reforms without interruption. On the other hand the three "natural" periods are the day, the month and the year, arising from the relative motions of the earth, moon and sun; the incommensurability of these periods is the fundamental reason for the long and continuing history of calendar reform, a part of which is recorded in this book.

Synodica V also refutes and dispels the outright fabrications that the Gregorian reform violated the norm of Nicaea, in particular the utterly ridiculous statement that Pascha/Easter must be after Jewish Passover. How many times is this repeated when just the opposite is true; those who continue to maintain this and then also use it as a deficiency of the Gregorian Paschalion are actually the ones who are diametrically opposing the Nicaean norm. I recommend from the Synodica V volume The Date of Easter – A Canonist’s Observations (48-53) by Prof. (now Fr.) John Erickson (retired dean and church history professor [emeritus] of St. Vladimir’s Theological Seminary) followed by Prof. Gorges Contopoulos’ The Date of Easter (53-56). In particular, Erickson (50-51) quotes from an article in SVTQ (Ogitsky:1973, 278):

Neither in the canons nor in other documents contemporary to the Council of Nicaea, and which interpret its definition is there any mention that one must exclude the possibility of coincidental concurrences of the Christian Pascha with the Jewish, i, e. the possibility of celebrating it in several instances on the same day as the Jews. Also, nowhere is there a prohibition against Christians celebrating Pascha earlier than the Jews. Such a prohibition would indicate a dependence of the date of the Christian Pascha on the date of the Jewish Passover. And everything that we know about the Nicene definition points to the fact that the Nicene Fathers were against any dependence whatsoever of Christians on Jews regarding this question.

Also of note from the article by Prof. Gorges Contopoulos (55):
The conclusion is that the present calculation of the date of Easter by the Orthodox Church is not in accordance with the letter of the 1st Ecumenical Synod. It is not even in accordance with its spirit, which is to have all Christians celebrate Easter on the same day.
Now, what solutions can be proposed? The obvious solution is to follow immediately the Gregorian calendar. This has two obvious advantages:
a) It is in close agreement with the rule established by the 1st Ecumenical Synod, and
b) Easter will be celebrated the same Sunday by all Christians.

However, this solution has also some difficulties. I will not discuss the difficulties arising from any change introduced in the Church, due to the traditionalistic attitude of many people. This problem is for you to discuss and solve.

I would offer considerable criticism for the socio-cultural insights of Archimandrite Nikon Patrinacos (78-96), and some misgivings about comments of the Anglican observer Rev. Wynburn (69-70). A Common Date for Easter – Notes on the Efforts in the Ecumenical Movement by Rev. Dr. Lukas Vischer (59-67) presents background on a number of issues that still provoke debate and should be on the TCDE2025 agenda. The other presentations and exchanges among participants are in French.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: 20th Anniversary of 9/11 Irish Melkite 09/10/21 03:08 AM
Lord, grant eternal rest and memory to all those, first responders and civilians, whose earthly lives were lost on that day, 20 years ago, as well as all who have since died as a consequence of illnesses contracted in the rescue and recovery efforts.

And, Lord, give compassionate comfort to the many thousands of family and friends whose prayerful expectation and hope is to be reunited with tehir loved ones in the hereafter
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: Happy Birthday to Alice Irish Melkite 09/09/21 11:41 PM
Happy birthday, Alice, and may God grant you many more years in health and happiness!
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: 10th Anniversary - Deacon Stan Cholewinski Administrator 09/09/21 10:14 AM
Eternal Memory!
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: 17th Anniversary, Deacon Nicholas Rosov Administrator 09/09/21 10:13 AM
Eternal Memory!
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Our 45th wedding anniversary Fr. Al 09/06/21 11:33 PM
Happy Anniversary! Many years!
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Town Hall Jump to new posts
Re: Help me identify this Byzantine seal ring. Anton Markov 08/31/21 07:37 AM
Dear friends,
The specialists from that Facebook group and my online research has identified the ring as a French medieval monastery ring with the inscription MARTINUS in Latin. So it is not from Byzantine after all! It was quite interesting figuring it out after so many years. Thank you!
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: Request for Prayer Fr. Deacon Lance 08/30/21 01:10 PM
Lord have mercy on your servant Edward.
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Re: Repose of 'OrthoMan' Fr. Deacon Lance 08/30/21 01:07 PM
Eternal memory!
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Prayer Jump to new posts
Repose of Archpriest John Morris Irish Melkite 08/29/21 04:48 AM
Archpriest John Morris of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, who posted here as Fr. John Morris and at as frjohnmorris, reposed in the Lord on January 15 of this year.
In your charity, please remember Father John in prayer.

O God of all spiritual and corporeal beings, You Who trampled death, broke the power of Satan and granted life to the whole world, now, O Lord, grant continued and everlasting rest to the soul of Your departed servant, the Archpriest John, in a place of light, freshness, and peace, where there is neither pain, nor sorrow, nor mourning, but only life everlasting.

As You are a gracious God and the Lover of mankind, forgive him every transgression committed by him in word, thought, or deed, since there is no man alive who has not sinned, for You alone are without sin and You are the Resurrection and the Life, O Christ our God, and we render glory to You, together with Your Eternal Father, and Your most Holy, gracious, and life-giving Spirit, now and always and forever.

May his memory be eternal and may his loved ones be comforted in the prayerful expectation of being reunited with him in Heaven.
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Faith & Theology Jump to new posts
Re: Icon of Our Lady Of Fatima griego catolico 08/26/21 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by forrest
I have been trying to find this icon. It was written by the Russian exiles in Europe approximately 1950- 1953. The icon was a gift to the Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima, USA. It was to be in the Byzantine Chapel in Domis Pacis in Fatima, Portugal.
Domis Pacis was finished around 1956. The icon was never placed in the Byzantine Chapel. My research has shown the icon to be in the Russian Studies Department in Fordham Univeristy.
If you can help I would appreciate it very much.
my email is:


Attached is the Fátima icon on the cover of the May-June 1985 issue of SOUL Magazine, the official magazine of the World Apostolate of Fatima, USA.
On the inside cover, it states:

The beautiful icon of Our Lady of Fatima in the Byzantine or "Russian" style shows all the people of the world gathered around Our Lady. Of interest are the prostrate figures of the Muslims and the three children of Fatima (in the lower left corner). The lettering alongside the images of both Our Lord and Our Lady is found on all icons where the Savior and His Mother are shown together. The original icon is in the Byzantine Chapel of our International Center in Fatima.

The icon is there at the Byzantine Catholic Chapel of the Dormition in Domus Pacis, the international headquarters of the World Apostolate of Fatima.

The icon was written/painted in 1950 by George Morozoff of Paris, who also wrote/painted the icons of the iconostasis for the chapel.
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