I read the posts on this forum on a regular basis and believe that there are a lot of well-informed posters. I am a recent convert to Roman Catholicism and have felt lately that I am not beeing spiritually nourished in my current faith community. For about a year I've been research, reading, and visiting eastern catholic churchs...I have a few questions.

1)Sometimes when I read the posts on this board I am unsure as to whether posters are discussing from and Eastern Catholic standpoint or an Orthodox (not in communion w/Rome) standpoint. Do Eastern Catholics refer to themselves as Orthodox (in communion w/Rome)?

2)Is "Byzantine" Catholic a Rite like coptic, maronite, melkite, etc., or is it an "umbrella" term that refers to all the eastern churchs that were born and influenced out of the Byzantine Empire?

3)How would I go about changing my rite? Do I have to get permission from the local ordinary of my own rite and the rite I would like to change to? Am I correct in believing that you can only do this once?

4)I live in Grand Rapids, MI...The only eastern Church in the area (I believe) is the Ukranian Catholic Church. Is this a byzantine church? Does anyone know of any other eastern churchs that are in the area?

5)In general, are all/most eastern Catholic Churchs similar enough that (for example) a maronite catholic could attend a melkite liturgy and feel at home?(I ask this question assuming that "byzantine" is the fore mention "umbrella" term).

Thank-you for any answers and advice.

(Just an aside--I am a frequent reader of Dr. Carrol on ewtn. He said just today that he will refrain from using the term "uniate" because the holy father refuses to use the term.)

Glory to Jesus Christ.

Well, you’ll have to change your call sign if you make the switch!

To try to answer your questions:

1. Byzantine Catholics serious about being Byzantine do think of themselves as Orthodox in communion with Rome and not as ‘Roman Catholics of the Byzantine Rite’, and of their Churches as full Churches equal to the Roman, not parts of the Roman Church. You’ll find this attitude especially in the Melkite and Russian Catholic Churches, but less in the Ukrainian and far less in the Ruthenian churches. It’s a hard road to travel if you want to be involved in churchy or academic things, since many Roman Catholics don’t understand this attitude, thinking the Roman Church and the Catholic Church are synonymous. The Orthodox sometimes react badly to it too, thinking such people are imposters pretending to be Orthodox to steal their people.

2. The Ruthenian Church in the US calls itself ‘Byzantine Catholic’ but more properly ‘Byzantine’ refers to the Orthodox rite also used by several Catholic Churches — Ukrainian, Ruthenian, Melkite and the tiny Russian, Greek, Byelorussian and Bulgarian Churches. Also, note that ‘Byzantine Catholic’ and ‘Eastern Catholic’ are not synonymous, as there are several Eastern Catholic Churches, like the Maronites of Lebanon, the Coptic Catholics and Ethiopian Catholics in Africa and the Churches in India, that do not use the Byzantine Rite.

3. You’re right about the canonical procedure to change Churches (and note it’s Churches, not ‘rites’).

4. Yes, it uses the Byzantine Rite.

5. Churches that share the Byzantine Rite are similar enough that people can visit or join each other’s Churches and feel pretty much at home, especially in the US where many local churches use mainly English regardless of ethnicity. (The Ukrainians tend to use modern Ukrainian more than the other churches use foreign languages.) The Maronites use a completely different rite from the Byzantine and probably would not feel at home right away in a church that is Byzantine.

Hope that helps.

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus’</A>

[This message has been edited by Rusnak (edited 12-04-2000).]

Dear latin-cath

You ask some interesting questions. Of course, there are equally interesting questions that I could ask, but I'll simply try to answer your questions.

1) Some Eastern Catholics do refer to themselves as "Orthodox in communion with Rome."

2) Yes, the term "Byzantine" is an umbrella term that refers to 14 of the 22 Churches that make up the Catholic Church.

3) In most cases you do not need to worry changing Churches. This really only enters the picture if you are seeking ordination or marriage. For the time being, perhaps simply attending will satisfy your sense of something being missing.

4) Yes, St. Michael's Ukranian Church is in Grand Rapids. This is one of the Byzantine Churches.

5) As one changes from one Eastern tradition (Byzantine, Maronite, Syrian, etc.) to another there are significant differences. The Maronite liturgy is significantly different from the Copic and they are both different from the Byzantine.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Dear latin-cath,

Welcome to the Catholic faith. The term "Orthodox in Communion with Rome" in generally not of common usage among Eastern Catholics, maybe 1-2% of Eastern Catholics would ever use the term regarding themselves, though their is nothing theologically incorrect about it. The Orthodox tend to take offense at it, so many ecumencially inclined Catholics (such as myself) refrain from the use of the term for that reason. The term does seem to be popular among internet posters who have joined the Byzantine Church as adults.

Byzantine is generally used to indicate the patrimony that developed from the Greek Church of Constantinople. The modern nations of Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania, Belarus, Moldavia and Albania were evangelized by the Church of Constantinople. Cyprus, Georgia, and the Middle East were originally of other rites. Byzantinization of these Churches brought them into the Byzantine patrimony. Coptic and Maronite are distinct ritual patrimonies. The Melkites are those members of the Churches of Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria that were Byzantinized and are in communion with Rome.

Change of rite is a juridical act that generally follows a pastoral reality, unless some event such as plans for marriage make it neccessary to formalize quickly. It can occur as often as pastoral need demands it.

Ukrainians are a Byzantine Church. In the United States, often the Byzantine Ruthenian Churches bill themselves as Byzantine and the Ukrainians as simply Ukrainian Catholic, however.

"Feeling at home" is a very subjective phrase. Maronite and Melkite are disticnt patrimonies. But for both, the majority of their members are Arabic speaking. A Melkite Lebanese immigrant might feel more "at home" in a Maronite parish than a Ukrainian parish. He might also feel more at home in a Francophone Roman Catholic parish than an anglophone Roman Catholic parish as most Lebanese Melkites speak French.

One further note to the cogent stuff Rusnak has posted above - A canonical change of Church/Rite is the LAST step, not the first.

As a Catholic, you may attend Divine services and receive most of the Sacraments/Mysteries in any church in the Catholic communion. For years & years. If you think your true home (at least on earth ) may be one of the Eastern churches, step 1 is to begin hanging out there. Go to Divine Liturgy. Not once, but for a few years. Get involved in the parish, and dig into the tradition both intellectually (read everything you can get your hands onto) and spiritually (Pray). Talk to the pastor.

If, after a couple of years you KNOW that THIS is where you belong, and you still want to go through with the paperwork, go for it. Lots of people never bother. Good reasons to bother are if you plan to be married, and want to do it in the Church your heart calls home, or if you are seeking Holy Orders. Some folks also have the need for the piece of paper which says unequivocally that they belong. Nothing wrong with that.

BTW, Byzantine Catholics outside of the Pittsburgh area tend to be high mileage drivers. There ARE Byzantine (Ruthenian) parishes in Michigan. Follow the link at the bottom of the page to ByzCath.org, scroll down to the directory of parishes, and see if anything's within your limits for "reasonable" driving distance.

Best,


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Woweee!

No disrespect to Kurt or Fr. Deacon Ed! Looks like we were all madly typing away at the same time & y'all got done 'afore I did. No slight to "youse guys," Ya weren't there when I took a first peek!

latin-catn, one more thing - before you begin looking Eastward, take a goodly look at your own treasure house. Not to discourage you from checking us out, but your Church has a lot to offer as well. It's just not always presented very well. (We aren't immune from that, either.) In a fair sized city there are usually quite a number of RC parishes, and they may vary widely in their orthodoxy, their fidelity to the Magisterium of the Church, and their Liturgy. Oftentimes there is one (maybe more!) parish in town where the Liturgy is outstanding, there are long lines at the confessionals (because there are only 4 priests hearing) the community is vibrant, and the Truth is preached. Problem is, they don't divide Yellow Pages listings under "Churches, Catholic" between "pedestrian," "abusive" and "this is where you REALLY need to be!" You have to do some digging & visiting. I could tell you where that parish is in Columbus, but I don't know from Grand Rapids.

You have to be a little patient as well. I know how hard that is; we converts are NOTORIOUS for being HUNGRY and wanting to be fed NOW! Been there. (Still live there)

Best,


Sharon


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com