I know that all the rites and churches represent the original church of Christ, but what do you think is the oldest church or the "succesor" of the ancient church of Christ.

Some people say that the chaldean church is very similar in worship, prayers, rite, priesthood... to the ancient church of the apostles, because the origin of this church is semitic (the apostles and Jesus were aramaic).

Listen to this section of the chaldean-assyrian anaphora and consacration:
http://www.esarhaddon.com/raza3.ram

(Do you think Jesus prayed like this)

The greeks would say that their church represents the ancient church because most of the first christians were greek and some authors say that St. Luka was the real founder of the byzantine rite.

Dear jc Lev,

I will leave the response to your interesting query to the theological scholars on the board here.

For me, the Oriental Churches of Assyria, Syria, Coptic Egypt and Ethiopia contain so much of the Semitic heritage of the early Apostolic Church of Jerusalem that they doubtless come closest to resembling the style of worship and theological perspective that Christ would have been at home in when He walked His Earth.

Alex

JC Lev

Thank you for this very interesting link!

Stefan

*sneaks in*

*looks both ways*

NOVUS ORDO!

*hurries out*

This is certainly an interesting question. Obviously, Jesus was Jewish, and thus His theological beliefs and cultural practices were Jewish. And also, the synagogue services were conducted in Hebrew. But the day-to-day linguistic phenomena were both Aramaic as well as Greek (both for commerce) and Latin (because of the Roman governance).

To make a silly parallel, Jesus would be like a Puerto Rican in New York. His theological beliefs would be Puerto Rican and His home language would be a mixture of Spanish and English. In the world of commerce, however, His day to day tongue would be English.

I think that suggesting that the current-day descendents of the Syriac and Aramaic peoples represent the 'day to day' religiosity of the Savior is, I think, pushing it.

While having an interest in antiquarian developments of the Arameans and Chaldeans is an interesting study, I think it is a mistake to divert attention from the legitimate Hebrew/Jewish facets of the life of the Savior. It is from whence He sprang.

Respecting the 'roots' is a good thing; but I hope that we have the sense to realize that it is the stuff of scholarship, and not a paradigm for us to follow.

Blessings!

NOVUS ORDO?!?!?

Felt banners and guitars (and "Clown Ministries") were not the norm in Palestine 2000 years ago!

(Which eplains why the Faith was able
to flourish in the time of such accute
persecution...)

(Yes...I know...that these atrocities
are not "de jure" rubrics in the NV...
...but "de facto"?....well, that's another
story...)

As far as English translations go...

...even good English didn't even exist then...

....so the suburban American English of
today would be out of the quiestion...

Overall, NV is the burden of the Roman Church.

We needn't trouble ourselves by mentioning it here...

What does this have to do with the Byzantine Catholic Church?

Blessings!

I think that it has to do with the byzantine church. Remember that the byzantine rite is a branch of the syriac-antiochian rite.
Although the christian faith was not very succesful among the jews, the first christians were semitic people (chaldean-assyrian). It is thought that the words of the "consacration", the anaphora and the liturgy of the sacrifice were a direct translation of the original one of Mar Addai and Marhi.
As a result of the expansion of the Byzantine Empire and the nestorian and monophisite heresies, the great history and beauty of the ancient rites were ignored by the greek church. It's good that the renasance of the chaldean-assyrian church shows that the ancient church is as true as the byzantine-latin churches

With all due respect to our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters participating here The Byzantine Forum is not a place for you to come and attack what you do not like in your Church. If you have problems with what happens in your local parish then take it up with your bishop.

FWIW, I frequently attend Mass at my nearby RC parish. It is spirit-filled, vibrant and wonderful.

This topic will also be moved to the "East-N-West Forum" since it is not clearly apparent that it has any relationship to current News about the Byzantine Churches.