From OrthoMan, in a now-closed thread:

The following is an excerpt posted in the Orthodox-Convert list. It is from a 21 year old former RC who joined the Byzantine Catholic Church only to be shunned by his RC friends for doing so. Note, that even though he has the utmost respect for the BCC, he see's it as a contradiction and is therefore, continuing his journey towards Orthodoxy. I post it here because I feel it coresponds to the subject matter that is being discussed. And, because as an Orthodox, I agree with what he is saying. And I too, have a great respect for the BCC, but see it as a contradiction. It is for this reason, I share it with you.

Orthoman

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So I joined a
Byzantine Catholic Church (I.E. Eastern Catholics or Uniates). Many Roman Catholics are joining the Uniates to escape the nonsense in Rome. I immediately fell in love with the Church and the liturgy.
However, my priest was very EASTERN ORTHODOX...and it seemed to me that Eastern Catholic Churches only give lip service to the Pope of Rome. Many Eastern Catholics outright reject many beliefs that Roman Catholics hold dear (Purgatory, Fatima, Immaculate Conception, Papal Infalliblity etc.) I found this interesting and found this trend very present in many other Uniate Churches in my area. As I brought these
isues to light with Roman Catholics, they were horrified that I joined an Uniate Church (though the Pope of Rome claims that it is fully in union with the vatican). Irish Catholics especially were very abusive to me and did not like my new found Church. I was shunned and my former Roman Catholics friends CUT all contact with me. My Uniate Church was very understanding with me and did their best to help me grow in Jesus Christ.

Nonetheless, many Uniate priests in my area were leaving the Byzantine Catholic Church to join the Orthodox Church In America and the ROCOR, and taking whole congregations with them. I love the
Uniate Church and I feel that they provide an important bridge to Orthodoxy. Nonetheless, it just didn't seem logical that one church
could teach things that go against Rome while being in union with it. On one hand, Roman priests will go through lengthy explanations of
why Its wrong to have married priests (while Uniates have married clergy). Some Ultra-Conservative Catholics feel that its necessary to
pray the rosary daily to remain closer to Jesus while their uniate brothers don't practise that tradition. Things were obviously contradictory on many levels and I felt that the Orthdox Church was the true Church. The Vatican has an elaborate array for articles and explanations with its relationship with Eastern Catholics though I
feel that they are sloppily done. And I feel that if Rome is able to lie about some issues, that they are able to lie about others.

And I guess that is why you see me here. I am no longer Roman Catholic.....but I want to learn more about your Orthodox Faith. I feel spiritually lost right now because I don't have a home Church. I occasionally visit my Uniate Church but I'm still having difficulty
making the move to Orthodoxy. Roman Catholics were so abusive to me that it seems like they would rather have me being a nominalist Catholic than an active Orthodox believer. They have almost destroyed my trust in Jesus Christ and I want to hold on of what I have left.
For the sake of time, I haven't given the details of how I was treated when I decided to leave Roman Catholicism and its still VERY
hard for me to get through the pain and anger.

Take care,
Nicholas

http://oldworldrus.com

To comment on Nicholas' letter:

Some of his experiences regarding treatment by Roman Catholics, including "shunning', coincide with mine, but my new Catholic friends made in recent years, replacing the shunners, have tended to be like Anastasios and Alex.

Quotation from now ex-friend, before I 'doxed: "You are no longer part of the Catholic Church.'

Nicholas' description seems to describe the Orthodox-oriented but certainly far from all Byzantine Catholics.

And I agree with Rich and Alex (from the closed thread) and disagree with Nicholas that there is no present-day exodus (meaning a big-scale movement) to the Orthodox from the BCs. A small stream of Orthodox-oriented convert laity make the change. Since the late 1930s split in the Ruthenian family that produced the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese (and a simultaneous split among Ukrainians, producing the Ukrainian Orthodox Church — Ecumenical Patriarchate dioceses of the US and Canada), 99% of born BCs do not even think about 'doxing. That reflects how they were taught, post-1938: "Catholic is Catholic'.

http://oldworldrus.com

I have been asked to inquire if the letter from Nicholas can be proved authentic and not a troll post from the Indiana List. A valid question. What say you, OrthoMan?

http://oldworldrus.com

This is quite a shame what happened in regard to the Latin response described. In fact, it is hard for me to believe. This was (is) not my experience. In fact, when I transfered to the Ruthenian Church, many of the Latin people really were quite excited (probably because our Priest has a good rapport and reputation, and is often seen at big para-Liturgical functions in his blue Epitrachelion and Zone). Is the negative response due to fear of the unknown, or invincible ingorance? Surely, ignorance can be remedied. Perhaps these people are afraid of real nitty-gritty Apostolic Tradition in any form?

Dear Serge,

Just to say that I would never say that you are outside the Catholic Church etc. as you know I wouldn't and that I have every respect for both the Orthodox Church and for you in particular.

But then again, you are rather unique!

Given my own background and everything that goes to make up me as "Alex," I fell right at home with your perspective on things and your take on East Slavic spirituality in particular.

Rather than say "you are no longer . . ." I say, "What took you so long?"

What you say and do goes to build up the spiritual lives of both Catholics and Orthodox.

Your post on the Novus Ordo will hopefully clear up some misunderstanding on this matter, as it has for me.

God bless,

Alex

In fact, it is hard for me to believe.

Believe it. Some of it happened to me.

Perhaps these people are afraid of real nitty-gritty Apostolic Tradition in any form?

I'm sure that's often true. But I've had a weird encounter with someone who ostensibly did believe in it, like Nicholas' conservative ex-friends. This person turned on me about three years after I 'doxed and when speaking to me 180'd from a semitraditionalist going against the tide to a peer-pressure bully telling me to get with the herd's program: dump that ethnic old-fashioned stuff. That was years ago.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Serge ]

akemner,
I hate to say this but I share Nicholas' experience.

I will not get into it. I will just leave it that a few of the Latin Catholic friends I had when I realized that I was truly a Byzantine Catholic, are no longer speaking to me.

This is something that has deeply affected me.

David

Dear David,

Yes, I've noticed this in one or two cases I've come across, when a Latin Rite Catholic becomes Byzantine.

It happened mainly within the family context where, in one case, the family disowned the fellow, even though he remained a Catholic but changed rites!

To be honest, the reverse would also be true, at least in the Ukrainian families I know (including my own).

If a Byzantine Ukrainian Catholic became Roman Catholic, then that would be considered a "tragedy" and an act of outright "treason" against one's Church and community.

For our community, the only RC's it ever really knew were Poles, you see . . .

So the end effect would definitely be "Polarization . . ."

I think, and I am just guessing, that some RC's in your Grand Republic might have a "seige mentality" given the nastiness between Catholics and "real Americans" over the years . . .

To leave the Latin Church would also be seen as a kind of treason. Andrew Sheptytsky, in another context, was and still is by many, considered to be a traitor to his Polish Catholic roots for having become a Byzantine Catholic.

It would be wrong to paint all Latins or Byzantines with same brush, since this has to do more with local context.

I remember the consternation caused when my in-laws were in Ukraine and came across relatives who formally joined the Ukrainian Roman Catholic Church.

It wasn't pretty . . .

Alex

Dear Friends,

I have had similar experiences. While I'm not a de jure Byzantine Catholic yet, I have been attending the Byzantine Catholic Church for the past 18 months. I told a local Roman Catholic priest about my switch and he replied by saying I wasn't allowed. He said cradle Roman Catholic must always attend the Roman Catholic parish. When I told him I would continue attending the Byzantine Catholic parish, his reply was, "Well, if you want to convert, then I can't stop you."

The saddest thing about this is one of my friends won't ever again step foot in a Byzantine Catholic Church because of this priest's misinformation. (He has been to the BC parish I go to before he heard the remarks of this priest) The ironic thing is that this same friend has no problem now and then attending the services at the non-denominational "born again" church that our mutual friend is a member of.

In Christ,
Anthony

I guess we really are (either or both) Jews or lepers.

If a Jew converts to a different faith (theoretically) he/she is treated as dead by the family.

From antiquity, those adjudged to have leprosy were also cut off from society and treated as dead.

I'm delighted to be in such company.

(And yes, I know a handful of otherwise sane Roman Catholics who are convinced that we are some way-out cult, no matter what the Pope says.)

Cheers,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

My RC friends were all very interested in learning more about the Ukrainian Catholic Church and excited that I was joining them. Even my RC priest friends have begun to read up on the Eastern Catholic Churches and show great interest in learning more. I have received nothing but praise and support for my move.
Don