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Just curious as to how often (if ever) Eastern Rite Catholics attend Mass in the Latin Rite. The reason I ask, is because I'am wondering if anyone has some mild form of aversion to statues, religious paintings etc. I would certainly hope that this isn't the case, because one of the reasons I occasionally have attended Divine Liturgy Services, was not because I was considering joining an Eastern Rite Church, but rather because the Eastern Rite is an integral part of Christ's Church,i,e, same Church different form of worship.
I've never really suspected any antipathy on behalf of anyone in the Eastern Rite, it's just that I'am wondering if any occasionally attend Mass in the Latin Rite.
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The only problem I have with attending a Roman Catholic liturgy is the "lack" of statues because most of the new post-Vatican II RC church interiors are too plain. I remember my mother taking me to her Italian Roman Catholic Church of St. Anthony in 1970. It still had it's Gothic altars and statues, very traditional. Three years later the parish family built a "new" church which resembles a very plain Protestant-style interior with it's tabernacle off center to the right of the main altar. Of course no new 1970's Novo Ordo church interior would not be complete without the famous "touchdown Jesus" hanging on the back wall of the sanctuary. I now know why all of the post-Vatican II RC traditionalists feel so empty when they attend their church. Modernism in the RCC in America definitely has something to be desired. Ung-Certez
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Last RC Mass I was at was about 2 years ago, to the local RC cathedral church for a World AIDS Day Mass. The Mass was nice enough, basically by-the-book and solemn, prayerful. At the end of the Mass, a specially-written icon, "Mother of God, Light in All Darkness" was presented to the congregation. The celebrants proceeded to lead all of the faithful to "raise your hands and we will all bless this icon." Last time I checked, I was not in Holy Orders. Needless to say, I didn't raise my hand. Left me wondering if it was the same religion I profess. I haven't been back since.
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Dear Lawrence, I attend a Roman Mass usually at least once or twice a month. This church is close to my office and is a very conservative old German Bavarian-style church where nothing was taken out after Vatican II. The altar and even the confessionals are carved wood with Bavarian/Austrian style onion domes on top, so I don't feel too out of place.
The priest there is very sympathetic to the East and when he taught in the Catholic schools he used to take his kids to the Greek Catholic churches for tours and Liturgy. He also hears confessions every morning which is almost unheard of anymore amongst the Latins. Some of the parishoners of this Latin church come for Greek Catholic services, functions, etc.
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Slava Isusu Christu! I attend the Latin Church here every Sunday, because there is no Ruthenian Church where I live. The Mass is simple and the priests are conservative. The liturgical space is fairly modest; they have statues in the Altar area and a beautiful ikon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help that they saved from the old Church which they demolished "because that was the old way and we don't think or worship like that anymore" (Quote from one of the women who spearheaded the parish to commit such an atrocity). They kept the ikon because ikons are "hip" now in the Latin Church They just recently moved the statues up front from the rear of the Church. It actually looks like a identifiable Latin Church now, but the Episcopalians are still bragging they are higher "Church" than the Romans. And they are right,; sometiimes I will attend the Epsicopal Church just to feel like I am attending Church for a change :p ; The Latin Church here still needs more work, but they are trying to restore some traditional things; the old geasers that wanted the changes are dying off. The Church was built in 1984 by the Mormons. I guess from what I was told they wanted to build something that would not resemble the old ways; their Church and the Catholic Church here look the same; it looks like a Lodge. The Church is made out of Red Cedar and has huge clear windows, a moveable altar-table, modern stations and a blessed sacrament chapel with a modern abstract stained glass window of a contemporary Alaskan Christ with dolphins and crows flanked about Him. It's really wierd. The Statues at the front at wood carved and true to life - modern, but still respectable. I'm spiritually starving, but hey I chose to live here You know it's that job thing and all :rolleyes: But I know one day I'll just get the heck out of here and go to Pittsburg or something. In Christ, Robert
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Robert, I hope you don't mind my asking on the Forum how come you didn't mention trying any OCA services in Alaska. The woods are full of 'em, or so I've read- some 85+ churches in Alaska, I believe.
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Originally posted by Robert Horvath.: I'm spiritually starving, but hey I chose to live here
I know what you mean.
Abba Isidore the Priest: When I was younger and remained in my cell I set no limit to prayer; the night was for me as much the time of prayer as the day. (p. 97, Isidore 4)
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If I'm out too late on Saturday night (which lately has been far too frequent due to band responsibilities...ah, the life of a rock star :p ) and just cannot drag myself out of bed for Divine Liturgy, I'll usually go over to the Basilica of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception for the 1:30 Latin NO Mass or, if I'm incredibly lazy, to the 7pm Mass at Old St. Mary's, like I did this weekend.
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Lawrence, I am an "easterner" who does attend LC weekday Mass, I try to attend at least once weekly. I went today, as it is the first day of Lent for us. The church I went to had a "touchdown" Jesus, I didn't know that was what it was called until Ung-Certez mentioned it. It is these modern style statues and banners etc that are bothersome. And the holding hands during the Our Father and shaking hands "peace" that bother me. BUT, I am their guest in their parish and I tell myself that I am the one with the problem. I don't Jesus has a problem with his children holding hands during prayer, etc. So, I berate myself to just deal with it. The Eucharist is still the Body and Blood of Christ. St John of the Cross tells us we should be attached to nothing but God himself. I understand him to mean with should not be so attached to our preferences for religious items.
Robert......... you dont' say where you are in Alaska. We have a family here in Georgia that used to live in Seward, and they sometimes went to Anchorage to a BC church. I know there are some Russian Orthodox churches there, but they are probably strict and would not give you the Mysteries.
denise
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Post Edited by me at Request from Admin:
Note:
Please forgive me if I was misunderstood. I have nothing, but love for our Byzantine parish in Anchorage, its former pastor, its current one, and its people.
I received the Holy Mysteries of Intitiation there and have many precious memories. If I offended anyone by my posts I beg the forgivness of Almighty God and yours. I say this In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on my a sinner.
Through the prayers of the Theotokos have mercy upon me!
Humbly in Christ,
Robert Horvath
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Originally posted by Robert Horvath.: the old geasers that wanted the changes are dying off. Exactly!!! It blows my mind that these folks consider themselves the "progressives." They are so far behind the curve nowadays. Talkin' 'bout my generation -- the baby boomers, the '60s retreads, the refugees from the last Peter, Paul & Mary concert. :p We're stuck in the '60s, and we think that makes us cool. Talk about clueless! :rolleyes As you say, though, the aging flower children are retiring now, and the new young priests replacing them tend to be quite orthodox. At our parish, where the pastor is a kindly (but fairly liberal) elderly Jesuit, we recently heard "testimonies" from two visiting Jesuit novices. What a sign of hope!!! These young men were rock-solid, orthodox, conservative, fervent, devoted to the Blessed Mother, in love with their Catholic faith. I kept pinching myself: "I must be dreaming. These are Jesuits?" When the Jesuits start producing orthodox seminarians, you know the tide is turning. There's hope, y'all.... Diane
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Sounds like some positive answers. Some years ago when I regularly attended a Tridentine Mass, I tried going to morning Mass at a nearby RC Church, no other way to say it, but the statues of our Lord and His Blessed Mother, looked like they belonged on Easter Island. So instead of continuing to go to morning Mass at a Church with less beauty than a Pizza Hut, I began occasionally attending Divine Liturgy at a Ukrainian Rite Church, what a difference ! Even when only 5 parishioners were present, there was a feeling of participating in something truly spiritual.
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In Mexico you can still find masses that are celebrated very reverently and traditionally decorated churches. When I go to a catholic mass I prefer to go on weekdays cause the youth guitar bands are not there and elder women sing hymns very reverently without instruments so it reminds me the Orthodox liturgy.
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My Goal during Lent is to attend 3 weekday liturgies during a week. Now to accomplish this goal I will attend noontime liturgy at a Roman Catholic church. Even during the year I will attend Liturgy during the week. I appreciate the fact that the RC church has a commuter schedule. My only complaint is that the Liturgy is too fast. But their audience is working people who do not have the luxury of attending a hour plus Mass. But it provides me with the opportunity to pray to our Lord and partake in the Divine Liturgy. The various Eucharistic prayers are wonderful. Because they are "new" to me I don't take them for granted. I listen/read what the priest is saying. In short, I like going to RC church. But I love going to the Eastern churches too. Diversity is wonderful.
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Byzantines who want to develop a more Orthodox religious life would do well to investigate the many other services the Church offers. Many of them can be prayed alone, but some are better within a community of believers. The following come to mind:
Hours
Forms of these are used in both the east and the west. A complete Horologion is available from St. Tikhon's and from Holy Trinity as I recall. See also the Office within the Sisters of St. Basil Matins book. The Hours correspond to Christ's day of Crucifixion as mentioned variously in the New Testament- First Hour, Third Hours, Sixth Hour, Ninth Hour.
Akathists
There are a great many of these prayer services, which are usually devoted to a specific saint, or to an aspect of the life of the Theotokos (Mother of God) or Christ Himself. There is a book of them published by Holy Trinity Monastery, available from several orthodox bookstores and suppliers- Light-N-Life, St. Tikhon's Seminary, etc. Some are also published individually. These can be prayed in private.
Matins and Vespers
Some Byzantine parishes have these services, but not all. They are viewed as part of the complete cycle of services for a given day. Usually Orthodox churches have Vespers Saturday evening around 5 or 6 pm, then Matins on Sunday morning prior to Divine Liturgy. Where Matins is not done, 1 or more the Hours above are usually prayed by a Reader or Cantor.
To me personally it appears to be a latinization to be totally preoccupied with Mass or Divine Liturgy to the exclusion of these additional services. A full prayer life needs a variety of approaches. Many Byzantines have yet to reclaim these additional forms, which could help them in their quest to restore their traditions, and enhance their life in Christ, IMHO.
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