May 4, 2002
Associated Press Newswires
Copyright 2002. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

VATICAN CITY (AP) - The Vatican said Saturday it was establishing two new dioceses in Ukraine and naming new bishops - a move that may create fresh tensions with the Russian Orthodox Church.

The new dioceses appear however to have been carved out of existing diocese territory, not new areas. They represent the regions of Kharkiv-Zaporizhia and Odessa-Simferopol.

The Vatican in February provoked the ire of the Russian Orthodox Church when it decided to elevate the status of four "apostolic administrations" in Russia to full-fledged dioceses.

Catholic leaders said the move was necessary to regularize the activities of Russia's 212 parishes and nearly 300 smaller, unregistered Catholic communities. But the Orthodox Church said it was an attempt by the Vatican to expand its influence in Russia and seek converts in the predominantly Orthodox country.

Pope John Paul II has made improvement of relations with Orthodox Christians a goal of his papacy, but the Orthodox Church has pointed to alleged Catholic poaching for converts as a top obstacle to a papal visit to Russia.

The two churches are also rivals for former church properties being relinquished by the governments of former Soviet republics - including in western Ukraine.

The pope visited Ukraine last year - despite criticism by the patriarch of the Orthodox Church, Alexy II.

There was no immediate comment from Orthodox officials Saturday to the Vatican's announcement; many offices were closed ahead of Sunday's Orthodox Easter celebrations.

About the dioceses, are these dioceses in ukraine latin or Eastern?

Are there Ukrainian greek catholics in Eastern Ukaine? Donetsk, Odessa, Kyiv???

I knew that the Roman Catholic converts are those who come from protestant denominations or non-chrsitian religions.
Does the RC defines those who were Orthodox and became RC as converts?
I don't think so, because they're not rebaptized or chrismated and they're just transfered to another church.
Is this true?

Remie,
As for Orthodox who come into communion with the Apostolic See of Rome there is no question of calling these people converts because they already have the Apostolic Faith. As you stated they are indeed Baptized and Chrismated.
They are received simply by declaring their communion with Rome.
And may I add THY ARE NOT TO BECOME ROMAN!
The Code of Canon Law says,that people who are baptized or received into communion in a Latin Church are in the equivalent Eastern Church of their Tradition.

Stephanos I

Its about time that Rome has made a definite move to visibly support the rights of Ukrainian Catholics instead of always ignoring their needs due to "ecumenical concerns". Why shouldnt the Ukrainian Church have the right to establish new eparchies when the need arises to serve her own people?

Robert K.

Oh, so now you are the judge of what Rome should be doing? When were you made Pope, Robert?

Did you read "Ut Unum Sint" and "Orientale Lumen" yet?

anastasios

Yes, I have read them and grudgingly agree to their statements. However since they were not promulgated ex cathedra I do not have to believe in their words as dogmatically binding.

As for Ukrainian eparchies, again I ask, why shouldnt they be created when they are necessary for the good order of the Church. THe Ukrainian Catholic people have suffered for centuries at the hands of the Russian government and its puppet church and now that they are finaly free from Russian rule, still Moscow must dominate them?

THe Ukrainian Catholic faithful have suffered much to remain in union with Rome and through the spilling of their bllod, the Ukrainian land has been sanctified and liberated from the tyranny of the Moscovite barbarians to become a great nation. Yet, Russia still seeks to control the Ukraine and subjigate her people to their yoke through the Russian colonialist church that has been set up in that country. Notice that the report did not say that the Ukrainian Church of Patriarch Philart was angry, but that the Moscow Patriarchate (Which sees Ukraine as Russian territory) was upset at these actions.

The Vatican is finally realized at last that their policy of appeasing the Russian bear didnt work and that Russia should be converted to the Catholic faith. This is the job of the Ukrainiane people whose destiny it is to lead the Russians back to Rome. This was confirmed in a vision of the Blessed Mother to a Ukrainian peasant girl just before the strt of the first world war. I cannot remember the exact details of the apparition but it did occur and was a great blessing for all of the oppresed Ukrainian Catholic peoples who would suffer much during the twentieth century.

You see Anastasios, by associating yourself with St. Vlads, you are starting to pick up a Russian imperialist mentality towards Ukrainians!
If you must go to an Orthodox seminary for your own reasons, then go to South Bound Brook.

Robert K.

Robert K stated: "with St. Vlads, you are starting to pick up a Russian imperialist mentality towards Ukrainians!"

FYI St. Vladimir's is one of the seminaries in the OCA which used to be Moscow Patriarch until the early 70's. Their Metropolitan Theodosious, has frequented Moscow and when he was in Ukraine, Met. Theodosious only went to Moscow Patriarchate places. OCA is still very much connected with Moscow. Russia. No offense ment to Anastasios
-ukrainiancatholic

When I first read and posted the article, I had assumed that the new bishops were of the Eastern rite.

I just looked around the 'net, and according to the Ukr. BBC service, the new bishops are Latin.

A nice Easter gift to the Greek Catholics, apparently.

[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: Roman ]

Yes, I have read them and grudgingly agree to their statements. However since they were not promulgated ex cathedra I do not have to believe in their words as dogmatically binding.

So you fall into the trap of many "traditionalist" Roman Catholics who do not recognize the Pope's teaching role outside of the ex cathedra statements? In other words, if the Pope doesn't say "now guys this statement is infallible" then you can ignore it?

As for Ukrainian eparchies, again I ask, why shouldnt they be created when they are necessary for the good order of the Church. THe Ukrainian Catholic people have suffered for centuries at the hands of the Russian government and its puppet church and now that they are finaly free from Russian rule, still Moscow must dominate them?

I never said I was against more Ukrainian eparchies. I just object to the way that you have become the judge of the Pope. Remember, the "ecuemenical" councils of the Roman Catholic Church such as Vatican I said that the Pope can't be judged!

THe Ukrainian Catholic faithful have suffered much to remain in union with Rome and through the spilling of their bllod, the Ukrainian land has been sanctified and liberated from the tyranny of the Moscovite barbarians to become a great nation. Yet, Russia still seeks to control the Ukraine and subjigate her people to their yoke through the Russian colonialist church that has been set up in that country. Notice that the report did not say that the Ukrainian Church of Patriarch Philart was angry, but that the Moscow Patriarchate (Which sees Ukraine as Russian territory) was upset at these actions.

Robert K.... first you joined ROCOR and wore Russian outfits, now you diss Russians... Now you are using Ukrainians for your ethnic fix... when will you stop trying to imitate quaint foreign cultures, and focus on the Church as the Church?? I love the Arabic culture of the Melkite Church, but do I run around talking about our "Arabic Church" etc. etc.? No... becuase I am not a part of that culture. I can assimilate some of its qualities, sure... but you seem to be jumping from Church to Church, from ethnic group to ethnic group, searching desperately for an identity. Why not look at yourself, instead of copying others? Ukrainians don't give a hoot what you think about them. You by your own admission don't even attend liturgy at a Ukrainian Church! Give me a break!

The Vatican is finally realized at last that their policy of appeasing the Russian bear didnt work and that Russia should be converted to the Catholic faith. This is the job of the Ukrainiane people whose destiny it is to lead the Russians back to Rome. This was confirmed in a vision of the Blessed Mother to a Ukrainian peasant girl just before the strt of the first world war. I cannot remember the exact details of the apparition but it did occur and was a great blessing for all of the oppresed Ukrainian Catholic peoples who would suffer much during the twentieth century.

Sure, Robert K... sure. But those visions weren't ex cathedra defined by the Pope, so I don't have to believe in them, right?

You see Anastasios, by associating yourself with St. Vlads, you are starting to pick up a Russian imperialist mentality towards Ukrainians!
If you must go to an Orthodox seminary for your own reasons, then go to South Bound Brook.

I'm beginning to just think you have lots of time on your hands, and are trying to find ways to start arguments... have you ever been to St. Vladimir's?? There are Ukrainains there!! In fact, a Ukrainian Catholic nun recently got a Doctor of Divinity degree there! And there are Americans, Serbs, Arabs, Blacks, etc. all at St. Vladimir's... this ain't Russia anymore, baby!

anastasios

The new diocese in East Ukraine are Latin-Rite Catholic, not Greek Catholic. The new Greek Catholic eparchy for Eastern Ukraine is Donetsk-Kharkiv with the eparchial see in the city of Donetsk. The new Bishop is Most Reverend Stapan Menyuk (sp?).

I find it interesting, in a disturbing way, that Rome would publish this on Holy Saturday for the Orthodox and Greek Catholic in Ukraine. I have no problem with the RC Church establishing new diocese in Ukraine, however, I wonder if their (RCC) decisions are not always for the more practical, but more an effort to convert Ukraine to Roman Catholicism. I will be posting an excerpt from an article I found on www.risu.org
which is written by a Greek Catholic and expresses well what I am trying to say. It will be a seperate thread/post, as I have wanted to post it for a while and I think it has a particular reference for this post.

Chirst is Risen!
(finally for both Orthodox and Catholic)
ALity

Anastasios

I did not say that I do not except the Popes encyclicals as Catholic teaching. In fact, I affirmed that I did and do indeed except them in their entirity.

Yes, the Orthodox Churches are indeed valid apostolic churches which can trace their lineage back to the Apostolic fathers. But sadly they are not part of the true and complete Church of Christ which subsist in the Catholic Church. That Church has a visible head, the Pope and comprises of all the bishops united under his spiritual authority. While the Orthodox are almost the same as the Catholic Church, non the less, they muiss the mark by a few inches for not being in communion with the Holy Father.

So both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not on the same level as each other. THe Orthodox need to be in communion with the Holy Father to be truly Catholic. The Pope most certainly states that in both of his Eastern oriented encyclicals and he invites the Orthodox to discuss ways in which they can accept Papal authority which would be acceptable to them. The last part is basically what I have trouble with. Millions of people have died both for and because of Catholic unity and, in my opinion, the present office of the Papacy is already complete both in its role and how it utilizes that role. True unity does not so far exist between these two Churches. When I return to the Catholic Church, I will have to admit that I did indeed leave her visible fold and am returning to it. If both Churches recognized eachother as equals then such a ceremony would not be necessary. At least the charity in which the Catholic Church treats Orthodox returning home far outcedes the Orthodox who had me REBAPTIZED upon entering their fold!!!

I would not want to see the Pope reduced to a mere figurehead with no actual or absolute authority or voice merely in order to appease the Orthodox whose own internal chaos is not actually something that should be held up as an effective example of Church governance. Unity would be just wonderful but it has to be on the rock of Peter and his succesors and not just an intercommunion. I think if you read the two encyclicals of the Holy Father, you will see that this is clearly expressed.

AS to Ukrainians: Why shouldnt they be proud of their long history of sacrifice and struggle not only against foriegn dominance but also in the preservation of the Catholic faith which, even today, is still going on. If I became a Ukrainian Catholic, most certainly would I imerse myself in her culture and traditions and try to be, as best as possible, a loyla nad proud adopted sone of her people. I would not be ashamed of associating or even absorbing as much as possible for the great Ukrainian people who truly constitute one of the greatest and most progressive cultures on Earth.

AS to St Vlads, no matter how "pan-Orthodox" they are today, the point still is that they are apart of jurisdiction that feverishly labored for decades to not only convert Greek Catholic Ruthenians but to Russify them as well. THey will probably place all kinds of pressure on you to become Orthodox by making you feel inferior as an Eastern Catholic. Dont think that this is just anti-orthodox rhetoric on my part. Be assured from one who is formerly a member of Orthodoxy that they absolutly hate Eastern Catholics and do everything in their power to slander, degrade, and humiliate those Byzantine Catholics that they come into contact with. You will experience this as you attend seminary even if it wasnt detectable upon your enrollment.

Remember, unlike you, I was Orthodox and know well the personally feelings of most Orthodox towards Eastern Catholics. I Catholic shouldnt attend someone elses religoous services or seminaries anyway because it could lead to their falling away from the faith. Same as being in a mixed marriage, the possibility presents a real danger to the Catholic in entering any environment that could cast doubts or cause one to leave the Church. A seminary of another religion is no place for a Catholic, no matter how close to that religon the Church may be!

Robert K.

Dear Robert K.,

Your passionate defences of the Catholic Church and faith, though they confuse me sometimes, are to be admired, in some ways. What I am itching to know, however, is why you ever left the Catholic Church for the Orthodox? The way you talk, I would think it would be like killing one's own mother or something. Why'd you go over to "the other side"?

Dear Friends,

XPUCTOC BOCKPEC!

First of all, please stop picking on Robert K.!

I told everyone, including Anastasios, that he was hopelessly Papalist and of the Basilian Rite of Ukrainian Catholicism!

And you didn't listen to me, did you?

You thought that just because I'm so nice to everyone, most of the time, that you could ignore my warnings with impunity . . .

Anyway, you guys ain't gonna win with Robert, so leave him be or else he'll be soon calling all of us, including me, "Russophiles."

The new dioceses are indeed Latin and they are meant to serve the Latins, among whom are many Ukrainians, in those areas.

The Latin Ukies are either descendants of the 1946 crowd who wouldn't go Russian, or else new converts like several aunts and cousins of mine, who want to try something new and exotic and with a Church leader who DOESN'T hold KGB membership.

I think we're getting all excited about a social and cultural situation of which we, as North Americans, really have very little experience with and understanding of (myself included ).

A Happy Bright Week! Brighten up, everyone . . .

Alex

How many Greek-Catholic bishops are there east of the Zbruch river today?

It seems that after the subdivision announced Saturday (the timing of which has to be interpreted as being aggressive in light of the Vatican's reputation in diplomacy), there at at least 4 Latin bishops east of the Zbruch.

Dear Roman,

Perhaps they are aggressive.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't a groundswell of support for the RC Church among Ukrainian youth and others today.

Communications I receive seem to indicate people there are tired of the endless bickering among the Ukrainian Churches, the politics etc. etc.

Are the RC getting their message out and reaching for converts?

You better believe they are. It is time we got going as well.

Alex

Yes but most of the time, the ones who make conversions of Orthodox people in Russia are Roman Latin Rite Catholics and not Eastern Catholics.
Recently I had a conversation with an Argentinian lay man who's a member of a catholic "pastoral group" with the conduct of a protestant preacher. he will go to Russia in July, and I asked him why the catholic church was proselityzing if the ROC was an Apostolic Church and had the right to evangelize the Russians. He answered that the ROC was not a true church, and a lot of things like that. Unfortunately, some Latin Catholics despise the Eastern Church and think that Easrtern Christians are archaic, anti-modern and say that they must enter to the "modern world". It was very disapointing.

I didn't believe that the Catholic church was doing proselitism, but now I know that this can be true.

Maybe the RC receive the Russians in the Latin church because the Russian Greek Catholic Church hasn't an organized hierarchy.

Dear Remie,

Yes, I would strongly protest RC incursions into any Orthodox country.

And this is a complex situation, to be sure.

But, in addition to proselytism, there appears to be the matter of "trendiness" among people in Ukraine and Russia.

For some, joining a western Church is "being modern" or "going western" as a whole.

There are many reasons, all compelling, for people in Ukraine and Russia, who are largely unchurched, to become RC or Protestant or one of the many other groups competing for membership there now.

But I do believe that Rome's move now is simply to respond to the fact of greater numbers of its faithful.

I don't like this business of the Byz. Catholic Church not being able to have its own eparchies.

Rome wouldn't dream of establishing them, for the Moscow Patriarchate just MIGHT say those Eastern Catholics, masquerading as Eastern Orthodox, are at it again!

But if the Latin Church does the same thing, well then that's different since if a Russian or a Ukie becomes RC then they must really have a call to do so!

But the fact of the existence of the Latin Church and the fact that it is expanding for whatever reasons must be simply acknowledged, as must the fact that not all the reasons people have for joining it are "bad."

Alex

Dear Alex:

I read that some upper-class Russian ladies in the 18-19th century used to go to services at a church attached to the French Embassy in St. Petersburg.

They regarded Russian Priests as ignorant and felt that it was so much more civilized to be able to confess to an educated priest in French.

I don't know if they ever founded a particular church themselves, or if it was just some sort of historic aberration.

I do know that there was a time when the Russian nobility used the French language more extensively they used Russian.


defreitas

CHRIST IS RISEN!

[and when he was in Ukraine, Met. Theodosious only went to Moscow Patriarchate places. OCA is still very much connected with Moscow. Russia. No offense ment to Anastasios -ukrainiancatholic ]

And the reason for that would have nothing to do with the fact that the other two 'Orthodox Churches' in the Ukrainian are not recognized as canonical by any canonical autocephalous or automonous Orthodox Church in the world.
Tell me, when the Pope or the Ukrainian Catholic Cardinal visit foreign lands do the include non canonical self proclaimed Roman Catholic Churches on their itinerary? How many SPPX, Redemptorist, etc. churches do they visit during their stay?

OrthoMan

Dear Defreitas,

Yes, absolutely!

Russian aristocracy preferred to use French, especially when they argued!

So many literary words of both Ukrainian and Russian are taken from the French.

Many Orthodox students from Ukraine went to Paris to study and brought back a myriad of cultural and linguistic influences, including Latin devotions such as the Immaculate Conception, the Joys and Sorrows of Our Lady (St Dmytry of Rostov), and a number of others that still exist in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Much of the impetus for union with Rome by the Orthodox Bishops in 1596 was also because they admire and looked up to Western European culture (and the Jesuits) so much.

Alex

Dear Orthoman,

XPUCTOC BOCKPECE!

How was your Pascha?

Mine is about to get more interesting . . .

I regret UC's remark about the Russian Patriarch and the OCA thing.

But, having said that, I'm going to have to disagree with your comparison of the "uncanonical" Ukrainian Churches with the SSPX et al.

It's not really the same thing. But we'll agree to disagree.

And I'm not just picking on "canonical" Orthodoxy here, but the RC Church as well.

If pulling out of "union with Moscow" makes a Ukrainian "uncanonical" where do I sign up?

And when did "World Orthodoxy" ever make canonical the uncanonical actions of Moscow to take what legitimately belonged to Kyiv (all right, "Kiev" for those who still think Ukraine is part of Russia)?

And if the Ukrainian Orthodox have made albeit stumbling efforts to reestablish their autocephalous existence, as have other "uncanonical" Orthodox Churches, well then "canonical" be darned!

The fact that Rome doesn't recognize them either - well, that is no credit on Rome. It doesn't recognize too much of what went on or goes on in the Ukrainian Catholic Church, martyrs or not.

And the Moscow Patriarchate called itself a "Patriarchate" for years before World Orthodoxy officially recognized it as such, as an autocephalous, self-governing Patriarchate.

Did the question of its "canonicity" ever arise as a result?

But when it comes to us poor Ukies, then the RC and ROC is all over us for canonicity while "World Orthodoxy" parrots back uncritically the perspective of the MP - supported by Rome.

I thought the MP was on bad terms with Rome. Perhaps that too is, well, propaganda.

Sorry to lay this out, but that's just the way it is from a colonized, as opposed to a colonizer, perspective.

The autocephalous Ukrainian Orthodox Patriarchate of Kyiv will one day achieve the same of canonicity that the MP has.

Besides, isn't the Russian Church now divided into FOUR competing jurisdictions, as my Russian friend tells me?

But, it's Pascha, and I'm already overstepping the bounds of good behaviour toward Roman Catholic and Orthodox.

Strange, isn't it, that when it comes to the Ukies, those two Churches find an amazingly unified stance?

I don't think you are that far removed from Rome, Friend - do you?

Forgive me for being a Ukie.

Alex

+JMJ+

Orthoman:

Redemptorists, as a whole, are in communion with Rome. It is only the Transalpine Redemptorists (crazy, "bi-Ritual" SSPXers) who are not in communion with Rome.

The Transalpine Redemptorists are a wacko group. There literature portrays the idea that Latin is more Catholic then Eastern. They also deny most things distinctive to the Eastern Churches in favor of Latin Customs. Altar Rails, Statues, Stations, Rosaries, etc. Their literature has also said such things as the Rosary is a higher prayer and more effacacious then the Chotki. They have also said that the Orthodox are heretics that need to be converted to the Catholic Church.

I beg anyone out there to destroy Transalpine Redemptorist literature, to dissasociate with this group, to discontinue any support for this group.

AS for the SSPX, they will come back into communion with Rome eventually. +Bernard Fellay (Superior General of the SSPX) was allowed to offer up the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass accoriding to the Tridentine usage in St. Peter's Basilica. He did this with more than a million pilgrims from the SSPX during the Jubilee year.

Joe Zollars

Dear Joe,

But if the SSPX come into communion with Rome, which western bogeyman will our Orthodox friends compare "uncanonical" Ukrainian Orthodox with?

Jehovah's Witnesses perhaps?

Alex

+JMJ+

Alex, bite your tongue! There are always the SSPV, which is a more accurate comparison considering the SSPV also does not accept the currant Patriarch of Rome as being legit.

There is also the CMRI, and at least 30 different groups that are "Independent Traditionalists" or have elected their own "Pope". There is also of course the Old Catholics and the High Church Anglicans as well as tens of thousands of Vagantes you could compare them with.

Joe Zollars

Dear Alex:

XPUCTOC BOCKPECE!

[How was your Pascha?]

Wonderful! Even though I ate too much. Especially 'Syrna Pascha' (did I spell it right)?
Which is not too swift for a person with type II diabetes.
I love going to church on 'Bright Monday'. In our parish all the Sunday school kids carry the Icons around the church in the procession. There were about 40 of them. This one little boy, named Alexei, is about two years old and two feet high. And it was the cutest thing watching him carry his Icon with such piety! Just hope someone took pictures.
Our priest every year sings a beautiful Ukrainian Paschal hymn in Ukrainian. It almost sounds like a Ukrainian lullaby. He does it in honor of his 'aunt Olga' who taught it to him when he was a little boy. My mothers name was Olga so it always puts tears in my eyes because it brings her back to me briefly while I listen to it.

[I regret UC's remark about the Russian Patriarch and the OCA thing.]

Which is what I was trying to address

[But, having said that, I'm going to have to disagree with your comparison of the "uncanonical" Ukrainian Churches with the SSPX et al.
It's not really the same thing. But we'll agree to disagree.]

Well, guess we will have to do that because to me it is the same thing. Good or bad, right or wrong, both of those Ukrainian churches are non canonical at the present time. As are the two Catholic jurisdictions I mentioned. That was my point.
Please don't get me wrong, I am 100% in favor of and supportive of a canonical autocephalous Orthodox Church in the Ukraine. The sooner, the better. But the point I was trying to make is that given the current status of these churches within world wide Orthodoxy, protocol would not sanction a visit by the leader of another Orthodox Church to them. For it would cause dissention.
This should not be taken as a condemnation of these groups, but a matter of protocol as I have mentioned. No doubt their canonical status will be corrected some time in the future.
My own (OCA) jurisdiction was in a similiar status until 1960.

[The autocephalous Ukrainian Orthodox Patriarchate of Kyiv will one day achieve the same of canonicity that the MP has.]

I agree and have no problem with it as I have stated earlier. The future of Orthodoxy in Ukraine may depend upon it.
But we are talking about the 'here and now'.

[Besides, isn't the Russian Church now divided into FOUR competing jurisdictions, as my Russian friend tells me?]

That may or may not be true. But you have that within the Eastern Rite as well as the Western Rite of Roman Catholicism. Its a fact of life. And usually a result of mixing religion with politics.

Example: Not too long ago I came across a website called something like 'The Byzantine Catholic Church Incorporated'. What the heck is that?
You could spend a long time just accessing the bogus Orthodox jurisdictions with websites on the internet.

And most of these divisions in both eastern and western Christianity are the results of politics and nationalism. As I have already stated. Unfortunately, its what you get when you mix religion and politics.

Thats why when people ask me my religion I answer by telling them I am an Orthodox Catholic. When they reply with Russian or Greek, etc, I respond with Orthodox American rather than an American Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Carpatho Russian Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox, etc.
Why? Because for me to say I'm American Orthodox would still be putting a national identity before God. The three things in my life I love and cherish the most are my God, my family, and my country. In that order. They are separate but equal and in a specific order. Kind of like the Trinity. But I seem to be getting off track here so I'll end.

It reminds me of one of our college students who had the following experience last week during 'Holy Week'. When she asked one of her Professors to be excused from class for Good Friday. The professor asked her - "What is more important? Your religion or your studies?" To which she replied - "My religion!" A call to our priest resulted in a call to the dean of the college and within two hours she had her excuse slip and an apology from the professor. I am proud of that girl. Why? Because she put God before everything which is the point I'm trying to make. And the way it should be.

OrthoMan

Orthoman,
When the Pope was in Ukraine last summer, he met with Patriarch Filaret (UOC-KP) who is unconnanical in the eyes of "world Orthodoxy" As far as Patriarch Lubomyr is concerned, although I know the man, I don't know if he meets with unconnanical RC churches. As some may have read on earlier posts, I really don't believe wether a church is 'connanical' or not, as long as there isn't spiritual flaws, I don't think God is judging wether this church is or not. BTW, Orthoman, are you Ukrainian Orthodox?
-uc

I'm a second generation born American with mixed slavic blood. On my fathers side my grandmother was born in the US returned to Poland when she was seven and came back to the US when she was seventeen. My grandfather was from the Croation aristocracy and was born and raised on the Adriatic coast in Dalmatia. Tucepi. The estate where he was born and raised was confiscated by the communistics and is now known as the Hotel Kastellet. I can access pictures and book reseverations on the internet.

On my mothers side I'm from a Lemko background.

As far as my religion, as I have stated I'm an Orthodox Catholic American. Who, is proud of his slavic roots (all of them) but puts God first in matters of religion.

OrthoMan

Dear Orthoman,

Forgive me for my earlier mouthing off, but I understand you now and agree with your position.

Did I also mention that I admire you too?

The future of the Church, here and now, depends on such devoted and loyal servants of Christ as yourself.

The "podvig" of Holy Week always gets me feeling aggressive.

I used to have an outlet for that when I was in amateur wrestling.

Now I take the dog out for long walks.

God bless,

Alex