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#114810 12/02/03 02:07 PM
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Dave -

That is correct! cool

There are few of us BC-SFO's wandering the hallways here!

Gordo, sfo

#114811 12/02/03 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Coalesco:
Dear Paul,
Thank you for pointing out that the nine first Fridays represent a novena of sorts, that makes more sense.

Dear Lawrence,
I love the way you have expressed your devotional practice as thoughtful meditation. It very closely matches my own lifelong meditative devotions.

I have no problem with the imagery whatsoever and I find it hard to believe that the imagery is what people are critical of. This is how I have always perceived the devotion to the Sacred Heart and the others you mentioned.

But I cannot reconcile myself to those promises, which I believe in some ways go too far, and reflect a certain way of thinking appropriate to another time.

Michael
Dear Michael,

Don't consider me an evangelist for Sacred Heart of Jesus devotion. God leads us and uses our temperament to find devotions that match our spiritual need. I'm just passing on information.

The promises are pretty much in sync with the Gospel. The famous passage, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) underscores the love of God through the incarnation of Christ and his sacrifice on Calvary.

In the Eastern Church liturgy the beautiful phrase, "lover of mankind" is used. This is not equivalent to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, but it proclaims the same truth.

God's love is what the Sacred Heart is all about. Any response we freely give to His love will surely bring His grace and blessings to our lives. That is how I see the promises of devotion to the Sacred Heart.

God's grace is not limited to SH devotion. Christ is "the hound of heaven." He will use whatever it takes to offer His grace to us. Sacred Heart devotion is one of the many tools available to we sinners.

SH devotion is private revelation. It draws some to Christ, but it is not dogma. The Holy Gospel is our rule of life.

Paul

#114812 12/02/03 03:49 PM
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Here's an icon of the Sacred Heart http://www.domlife.org/2003/preachwhat12.html

#114813 12/02/03 03:55 PM
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"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly of heart, and you will find rest for your souls!" (St. Matthew, Chapter 11, verse 29)

For my personal two cents worth, the question in ALL things is: does this bring YOU closer to the Lord? If it does---GREAT...then continue with this devotion! Icons, chanting, devotions---all of these are a MEANS to bring us closer to the Lord Jesus. Each of us (because of differences in temperment) are helped by different things...if this one works for YOU...use it with vigor! It is in the end, a personal choice anyway...no one FORCES anyone to use a particular devotion or icon as THE means to deepen a person's relationship with the Lord.

In His great love for us all,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory


+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!
#114814 12/02/03 04:25 PM
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I just posted this down below in Town Hall and found your discussion.

http://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000979;p=1#000000

FLORIDA CONSECRATED TO IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY, WITH GOVERNOR ATTENDING

Consecration of a nation or area is considered a powerful means of protection. The famous Fatima appearance included a request for the consecration of Russia. The state has also been consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus.


So I guess Jeb Bush takes it seriously! Praise God!

#114815 12/02/03 04:28 PM
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Of course I cannot add to Archimandrite Gregory's insight.

However, I would like to offer an "Eastern" version of the Sacred Heart which some of you may find more palatable.

At the death of an esteemed friend, patient, and Byzantine priest, I commissioned an icon to present to his parents who are members of my parish. (He was their only child.)

The icon is of the beloved disciple reclining on the breast of Jesus (picture the head of John with an ear to Jesus' heart). I liked this icon so much that I've since had two others written, one for myself, and one for my mother.

John, Deacon

#114816 12/02/03 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Coalesco:
But I cannot reconcile myself to those promises, which I believe in some ways go too far, and reflect a certain way of thinking appropriate to another time.
Michael,

I feel the same way about the brown scapular. We used to attend a very latinized Byzantine parish and some of the people we knew tried to push the brown scapular on us. They treated it like a good luck charm to get you into heaven. While I know that was not Mary's intent when she gave the brown scapular and its promises, many people seem to wear it with the attitude that it gives them license to sin.

Like Archmandrite Gregory said, it all depends on what works for YOU. I'm sure the brown scapular strengthens the faith of some people, but for others like me, wearing it would be an impediment to their faith.

St. Paul warned people who eat meat not to cause their brothers to stumble, and said that if something is done without faith it is sin. I think if one adheres with faith to the promises of the devotion to the Sacred Heart or the brown scapular, it is good for their relationship with God. But if one is motivated by superstition or fear rather than faith, it is not good for their relationship with God and they should find some other devotion that fits them better!

Just MY two cents!

Tammy

#114817 12/02/03 05:35 PM
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Dear Friends,

First of all, I have to really thank ALL of you who have posted here to date.

I've found insights here that I have never seen anywhere else, whether in books, journals or via verbal communication.

So I can't thank you all enough for enriching me personally, for starters, with your insights. I really can't!

I agree that Eastern spirituality is also very "heart-centred" spirituality, especially the Prayer of the Heart, the Jesus Prayer.

I once told my Byzantine Irish priestly friend, Fr. Serge Keleher, that my praying the Jesus Prayer was made more powerful by praying it before the icon or picture of the Sacred Heart. He was very keen on that!

Certainly, the symbol of the heart is in Byzantine iconography. One may see icons of Christ the Lover of Mankind holding the Gospels on which there are hearts etc.

I also agree that the East has always had a strong veneration for the Wounded Side of Christ from which flowed Blood and Water. We kiss the edge of the Chalice following Communion that represents Christ's Wounded Side as we are nourished in Communion from it.

And the propers for the feast of St John the Theologian do, in fact, point to his resting his head on the Chest of Christ and his closeness to Christ's Heart is implied.

The East has Icons of Christ the Lover of Mankind, but I agree that the best Icon of the Pierced Side and Heart of Christ is the Crucifix.

St Vladimir's Seminary Press published St Nicholas Cabasilas' Commentary on the Divine Liturgy and does discuss this great theologian's (recognized as such by RC's too) devotion to the "Heart of Christ" within the context of the Holy Eucharist in the Divine Liturgy.

St Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain also has a number of things to say about the Heart of Christ and he emphatically underlines the importance of Christ's Heart in Eastern spirituality.

I personally don't relate to the visions of St Margaret Mary Alacoque, but they are perfectly valid for anyone to accept. The modern RC devotion that depicts the physical Heart of our Lord is also something that is up to each of us - we know that our New Martyrs had a great veneration for this form of the devotion, especially in the Eucharist.

The Akathist to the Sacred Heart of Jesus was, as I understand, written to allow EC's who were strongly attracted to this devotion to have a liturgical/devotional outlet for it

I agree that veneration for Christ under the aspect of His Love for Mankind and for His Wounded Side have a long history in both East and West.

Alex

#114818 12/02/03 09:24 PM
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Alex,

I recommened that you consult the book," A Byzantine Rite Liturgical Year", by Fr. Demetrius Wysochansky, OSBM. There is a chapter devoted to the Feast of the Sacred Heart on the Ukrainian Catholic liturgical calendar. According to the book, the Servant of God Metropolitan Sheptytsky had a devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and believed that such a devotion to the Heart of Jesus was in harmony with Byzantine spirituality. He felt that such devotion to the Heart of Jesus would be of great spiritual benefit to the people.

According to the chapter, the liturgical services and the akathist to the Sacred Heart of Jesus were composed by Father Isidore Dolnytsky.

The feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus was renamed the Feast of Jesus, Lover of Mankind during the liturgical revisions that the Holy See conducted in the 1940's.

griego

#114819 12/02/03 09:32 PM
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Alex,

The day after the feast of Christ, Lover of Mankind(formerly known as the feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus)on the Ukrainian Catholic liturgical calendar, there is the feast of the Sorrowful Mother of God. Do you know when this feast day was added to the calendar? I am guessing that this is the UC equivalent of the Roman-rite feastday of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which is celebrated the day after the feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Do you know how this feast day came to be included on the UC calendar?

Are the feastdays of Jesus, Lover of Mankind and the Sorrowful Mother of God still celebrated on the Ukrainian Catholic liturgical calendar?

#114820 12/02/03 09:45 PM
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I found this site that is appropriate for this thread:

http://praiseofglory.com/easternheart.htm

#114821 12/03/03 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by Archimandrite Gregory:
"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly of heart, and you will find rest for your souls!" (St. Matthew, Chapter 11, verse 29)

For my personal two cents worth, the question in ALL things is: does this bring YOU closer to the Lord? If it does---GREAT...then continue with this devotion! Icons, chanting, devotions---all of these are a MEANS to bring us closer to the Lord Jesus. Each of us (because of differences in temperment) are helped by different things...if this one works for YOU...use it with vigor! It is in the end, a personal choice anyway...no one FORCES anyone to use a particular devotion or icon as THE means to deepen a person's relationship with the Lord.

In His great love for us all,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory
Dear Father Archimandrite Gregory,

I enjoyed your post. It is so true!

It is a joy to share this forum with you.

Peace to you in Christ Jesus,

Paul

#114822 12/03/03 02:06 PM
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Dear Griego,

Yes, I have that book - and the one by Fr. Julian Katrij OSBM likewise discusses it!

Effectively, though, what has happened is that the UGCC is now divided into "more Eastern" and "more Latin" parishes with respect to the devotion to the Sacred Hearts.

Some parishes completely drop the feasts of Jesus the Lover of Mankind and the Holy Eucharist altogether.

When the Russian Catholic Church was formed at the beginning of the 20th century, the Russians asked the Pope not to require them to have the devotion to the Sacred Heart or Corpus Christi,

The Pope agreed.

Met Andrew Sheptytsky did indeed venerate the Sacred Heart of Jesus (for which he was personally criticized by the Orthodox Met. Antony Khrapovitsky, for one!).

And our Eastern parishes today tend to ignore his devotion, and that of other New Martyrs, on the grounds that they were not "sufficiently Eastern" in their liturgical awareness as yet. One writer said that Met. Andrew was "simply too old, you know" in this regard.

So the fact of the presence of this Feast in our calendar does not mean that all parishes observe it. Nor does Rome require it of us - although our Basilian and Redemptorist Bishops do! And, to be fair, this devotion is VERY popular in Eastern Europe, even among the Orthodox!

The Feast of Christ, the Lover of Mankind is truly in keeping with the spirit of the East - but ultimately there is no need to introduce any new feasts into our calendar. The devotion to Christ the Lover of Mankind is present throughout the Octoechos etc.

So, yes, we do venerate Christ under the aspect of His Love for mankind and His Wounded Side. But, no, it is not necessary to have separate feasts for this purpose. And it would not be in keeping with the principles of Eastern iconography to depict Christ with His exposed physical Heart. That is not necessary as we have the Crucifix with Christ's Wounded Side.

The feast of the Sorrowful Mother is the celebration of the Pieta.

According to Myron Fedoriw, this devotion arose not among the Eastern Catholics, but among the Ukrainian Orthodox in Kozak times 18th century, - obviously borrowed from the West, but a devotion that spoke poignantly to people in times of war when scenes of mothers weeping over their dead sons defined them.

The Ukrainian Orthodox celebrated this on the "Tenth Friday" after the feast of the Ascension, as I understand. Basil Lypkivsky in his "Sermons" refers to it as the "feast of the Tenth Friday."

This Orthodox writer describes it as a feast that was quickly pruned away from the Ukrainian Orthodox tradition by the Russians as a "Latinization" from the Uniates . . .

But Basil writes that Ukrainian Orthodox never gave it up and, in several cases that he was personally aware of, Orthodox Ukrainian priests would use borrowed Uniate texts to celebrate the feast - texts that were later locked away from public view . . .

This is a case of a Latin feast adopted voluntarily by Orthodox and then adopted from the ORthodox by Greek Catholics.

There were even several miraculous icons/pictures of the Pieta in Galicia. I used to have a picture of a Lemko church that had a miraculous outdoor statue of a Pieta.

The Mother of God had a crown and Her dead Son had another, attached to His Head sideways!

I also have an Akathist to the Sorrowful Mother for this feast in Ukrainian.

The Orthodox icon that resembles the Pieta is "Do Not Weep for Me, Mother."

No Eastern Catholic Churche has ever, to my knowledge, ever adopted a liturgical feast-day for the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Alex

#114823 12/03/03 02:15 PM
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I recently received an AWESOME Icon of the Mother of God of Sorrows from the Moscow Patriarchate (complete with seven swords piecing her chest...no heart visible). This is a very beautiful icon which I would think is mostly drawn from Western neighbors of Orthodox Russians???

Thanks in advance for any answers!

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory


+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!
#114824 12/03/03 02:30 PM
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Bless, Father Archimandrite!

There are two variants of this icon: The Icon of the Seven Arrows or Swords and the Icon "Softener of evil hearts."

The former has three arrows on one side and four on the other of the Mother of God. The latter has three on either side and one below. And this relates to Simeon's Prophecy. (There is an icon called "Simeon's Prophecy" with only one arrow).

The icon you have is probably a copy of the one that is in the Toshen Church of the Seven Arrows of St John the Theologian which is near the city of Vologda.

In 1830, the cholera struck the city of Vologda. The people took the icon of the Seven Arrows and carried it around their city in procession - after which the cholera epidemic ceased.

Iconographers who have studied that icon affirm that it is at least 600 years old. There is another miraculous copy of that icon in the city of Navolok in the church of St Dmitri of Prilutsk.

Its feast day is August 13.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing, Father,

Your beadsman,

Alex

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