The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
AsOnDryLand, Joe R, FrEugene, Monik, Chathasaigh
5593 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 73 guests, and 450 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,707
Posts411,762
Members5,593
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #106
11/06/04 04:04 AM
11/06/04 04:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 21
Florida
NYDeacon Offline
New
NYDeacon  Offline
New

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 21
Florida
Not to drag this out but my first parish assignment was a Yugoslavian (before the war) community and the people called me father and kissed my hand. I was completely embarrassed by this ritual; as an American I never had experienced it before. Any way I complained to the Pastor who said in his wisdom, "Hey, you are a father of four kids, right!" And my kids kiss me, So, I got over the initial shock.

I found the last message from Our Lord to Mirna of Damascus. It's almost like the Lord was talking to me: Listen and meditate on it!!!

Message of Our Lord Jesus Christ - Holy Saturday, April 10th 2004.

This is my last commandment to you:
Each one of you, return back home,
however, hold the East in your hearts.
From here a light emerged anew.
You are its radiance in a world seduced by materialism, sensuality and fame,
so much as to have almost lost its values.
As for you, hold on to your Eastern identity.
Do not allow your will, your freedom and your faith in this Orient to be taken away from you.


John

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #107
11/06/04 09:54 AM
11/06/04 09:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,962
Massachusetts
I
Irish Melkite Offline
Global Moderator
Irish Melkite  Offline
Global Moderator
Member
I

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,962
Massachusetts
Deacon John,

Welcome to the forum smile .

Quote
Originally posted by NYDeacon:
I also attended a Western Orthodox Liturgy the other day and they called it a Mass! So I'm a little confused on that right now.
I'm with you there. With all due respect to any of our members here who are of the Western Orthodox Rite(?) in the Antiochan Archdiocese or elsewhere, I keep having the sense that it is an effort to be "orthodox" without really being "Orthodox" (hmm, now that I think of it, I guess I've also heard folks say that of Eastern Catholicism in relation to Catholicism confused ).

Quote
One of my class-mates, a Lebonese married gentleman was ordained separately by his bishop and went on to become a priest in his Rite. I was facinated by that! I think it is the Maronite Rite?
You don't recollect his name, perchance? I have a suspicion it may have been one of ours, but I'm blanking right now.

Quote
I'm really too old to start re-training (you can't teach an old dog new tricks!) as an Eastern Rite Deacon, I was just afraid to lose what I have. A priest in the Orthodox Church told me that if I became Orthodox, I would become a lay person. I want to die as a holy deacon
One is never too old. I see by your profile that you're 67. Protodeacon Paul Lawlor, Chancellor of the Eparchy of Newton, may God grant him many (more wink ) years, celebrated his 90th birthday earlier this year; he was ordained to the diaconate in 1982 at age 68. Deacon Paul divides his week between working from home and at the Chancery. So, let's put to rest the idea that one could be too old wink .

Quote
Have you heard of Our Lady of Soufanieh, Damascus, Syria, where Mother Mary appeared to Mirna Nazzour.
I like you more and more, are you sure you don't want to be Melkite biggrin ? (It's only a couple hundred miles from Orlando to Miami, as I recollect.) I had the honor and privilege of coordinating security and transportation for Mirna's visits to our Basilian Seminary and the Melkite Cathedral several years ago and I have a deep personal devotion to Our Lady of Soufanieh.

Quote
Not to drag this out but my first parish assignment was a Yugoslavian (before the war) community and the people called me father and kissed my hand. I was completely embarrassed by this ritual; as an American I never had experienced it before. Any way I complained to the Pastor who said in his wisdom, "Hey, you are a father of four kids, right!" And my kids kiss me, So, I got over the initial shock.
Deacon John, having been assigned to such an unlikely and highly ethnicized site as a Yugoslavian parish, albeit Latin, you came as close to the East as one can get without going there biggrin . Now that you've learned to accept kisses to your hand, you're ready for any of the Byzantine-Slav Churches; to come over to we of the Byzantine-Greek Churches, you only need to get used to triple/alternating cheek kisses, accompanied by a bear hug biggrin .

I would definitely inquire of the Eparchy as to the prospects for obtaining bi-ritual (I keep thinking that, these days, it should be bi-ecclesial) faculties.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #108
11/06/04 12:35 PM
11/06/04 12:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Ohio
V
Vito Offline
Member
Vito  Offline
Member
V

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Ohio
Dear friends, Mirna has visited our parish twice. We have a shrine dedicated to Our Lady of Soufanieh which you can see on our parish website: http://www.byzantines.net/stmary/ Our parish has a prayer group which meets on Fridays and says the rosary with meditations based on the events of Soufanieh.

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #109
11/06/04 12:51 PM
11/06/04 12:51 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 383
North Carolina
Ladyhawke1017 Offline
Member
Ladyhawke1017  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 383
North Carolina
Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Friends,


Could others share their experiences too?

Alex
Alex,
funny you should ask since something came to mind this morning at, oh about 5:30am est, while I was sitting on the back deck having my first cigarette of the morning(just to explain what i was doing out there so early, you understand)...

I looked up at the dark Maryland sky and saw all those stars and couldn't help but pray...I mean, I literally couldn't help it if I wanted to, the whole view was just too beautiful, just too awesome to do anything. Sitting and contemplating those stars, I began to feel sorry for those who look up and see hydrogen burning and quasars, and black holes and measure the distances from here to there.

I have tried in the past few weeks to begin a rule of daily prayer and I am paying much more attention to fasting...for anyone who suffers from depression, btw, I can now recommend a great book called "Depression: A Spiritual Guide" by Archimandrite Spyridon Logothetis. After suffering from the effects of mental illness for years, I've finally found a 'self' help book that really makes sense.

For those who think that Christianity is dying out...they are about to face the same surprise that many in Hollywood and the American media are waking up to. They can tell us all they want that no one does these things anymore, or believes these things anymore, but what they are going to find is that the vast majority of us are listening, because God is speaking much too loudly for us to hear the braying of the fools.

Vie

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #110
11/06/04 01:36 PM
11/06/04 01:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,070
Arizona
J
Jim Offline
Member
Jim  Offline
Member
J

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,070
Arizona
This thread reminded me of the "God is Dead" stuff that was in vogue with secularists in the 1960s. I think even time proves just how unreliable such stuff is.

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #111
11/06/04 02:29 PM
11/06/04 02:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Irondale,AL
Pani Rose Offline OP
Member
Pani Rose  Offline OP
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Irondale,AL
Deacon John wrote:

"By the way, we have a nightly Rosary Chat room going where people from all over the world pray together. I moderate the room 3 or 4 nights a week at 8pm. If you are interested in joining, visit www.mmponline.org."


Grace came to the chat room that I use all the time Churchbulletin Homepage and spent time with us back when the old system was being use, Dave the chatmaster helped her get the system you are using now. She is a delightful lady and as usual, I love that Austrailain accent.

Deacon John, by retraining, I believe they had him spend time there, maybe a week, to understand the rubrics. The remaining is done at the parrish. There is a lot to be learned in process of participating. The richness of the Divine Liturgy and worship takes a lifetime to learn. One of the rites did a study of the references to the Scriptures in the Liturgy and it showed over 220 (dont remember the exact number), so that in itself is a realism of the faith that is in action when the Church prays.

So don't give up, cuz you think you might by too old. God has a lot in store for those who love him. It sounds like he planted the seeds of the East in your very first parrish.

Pani Rose

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #112
11/07/04 12:33 AM
11/07/04 12:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 21
Florida
NYDeacon Offline
New
NYDeacon  Offline
New

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 21
Florida
You people are so great! I love the replies and the beautiful thoughts you posted!!!

I'm just getting my feet wet as I experience and pray the Divine Liturgy. But the reverence, beauty, and mystery overwhelmes me. I feel like I died and went to heaven each Sunday! How come there is no daily Divine Liturgy? I certainly would attend if it was daily.

Neil, I remember his last name, Maroon, if thats how its spelt. Funny, we use to say to him "What a maroon!" wink

To tell the truth, I don't want to live till I'm 90. I'm longing for heaven NOW! "Swing low sweet chariot." But not my will, God's Will be done!

I'm so happy that Our Lady of Soufanieh is well known and venerated here. Wonders never cease!

How about Father Walter J. Ciszek, ordained for the Eastern Church, who spent 20 years in Russian prison camps, accused of being a spy and was very instrumental in the spread of Catholicism there. There is a cause for his beatification! One of my favorite priests!

Here is a short list of his life:
1890ís - Mother (Mary) and father (Martin) emigrate from Poland to Shennandoah, PA in the USA.

1904 - Nov. 11 - Born in Shenandoah, Pennsylvania.
1928 - Sep 7 - Entered the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) novitiate in Poughkeepsie, NY.
1929 - Volunteered to answer Pope Pius XIís call for volunteer missionaries to Russia.
1934 - Sent to Rome to study theology and Russian language, history and liturgy at the Pontifical Russicum.
1937 - June 24 - Ordained in the Oriental Rite in Rome.
1938 - Nov - Sent to Jesuit Mission in Albyrtyn, eastern Poland.
1939 - Sep 1 - Hitler invaded Poland followed quickly by the Russians.
1940 - Mar 15 - Crossed into Russia under the assumed identity of Wladimir Lipinski for 1500 mile train trip to Chusovoy in the Urals.
1940-41 - Worked as an unskilled logger.
1941 - Arrested as a Vatican spy and sent to Lubianka prison in Moscow, where he spent six years, most of which in solitary confinement.
1942 - Jul 26 - Signed a confession and found guilty of espionage. Remains in Lubianka four more years.
1946 - Sent by train 2500 miles to Krasnoyarsk then 20 days by boat to Norilsk in Siberia where he shoveled coal into freighters and then transferred to the coal mines for one year.
1947 - Transferred from mining coal to construction worker in an ore processing plant.
1953 - Oct - Sent to work in mines for two years.
1955 - Apr 22 - His 15 year hard-labor sentence is complete. Freed with restrictions to city of Norilsk. Writes to his sisters in USA.
1955 - Word reaches United States that he is still alive in Russia.
1958 - KBG instructs him to move to Krasnoyarsk where he establishes mission parishes.
1960 - KBG transfers him 100 miles south to Abakan. Works as auto mechanic for four more years.
1963 - Apr - Receive letter form sisters in USA.
1963 - Oct 12 - Returned to the U.S. in exchange for two soviet agents.
1963 - Oct 13 - Visits St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City.
Altogether, Father Walter Ciszek was absent from America for nearly 30 years, of which he spent 23 years incarcerated in the Soviet Union, 15 of them in a Siberian gulag. All through his imprisonment, Fr. Ciszek continued to pray, celebrate Mass, here confessions, conduct retreats and do parish work. During his imprisonment through the 1940ís, 50ís and early 60ís he missed all that had developed technologically, socially and politically. What caught his attention most when he returned? - the wastefulness not just in the matter of food, but other commodities like paper and plastic, all thrown out and burned. He was also amazed that only one family should occupy a house with six, seven, or eight rooms. "I am an American, happy to be home; but in many ways I am almost a stranger."

Bless you all+
John

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #113
11/07/04 03:21 AM
11/07/04 03:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Irondale,AL
Pani Rose Offline OP
Member
Pani Rose  Offline OP
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Irondale,AL
Very interesting history. What an awesome man of God he must have been. He will surley be cannonized.

Two Lungs posted this address to see icons and such from the Underground Church.
http://www.ichistory.org/churchex/church18.html

If there is a Ruthenian Byzantine Parrish around you , they will have a daily Divine Liturgy.

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #114
11/07/04 05:58 PM
11/07/04 05:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,962
Massachusetts
I
Irish Melkite Offline
Global Moderator
Irish Melkite  Offline
Global Moderator
Member
I

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,962
Massachusetts
Quote
Originally posted by NYDeacon:
How come there is no daily Divine Liturgy? I certainly would attend if it was daily.

Neil, I remember his last name, Maroon, if thats how its spelt.

How about Father Walter J. Ciszek, ordained for the Eastern Church, who spent 20 years in Russian prison camps, accused of being a spy and was very instrumental in the spread of Catholicism there. There is a cause for his beatification! One of my favorite priests!
Deacon John,

Many of our parishes have a daily Divine Liturgy. You may want to check Unofficial Directory of EC Churches - US - FL and see what other EC parishes are in your area. The listing is pretty much up-to-date, although some of the links to individual parish webpages don't work.

Your recollection of your classmate as a Maronite is probably correct. "Maroun/Maroon", as either a personal or surname is typically (altho not always) Maronite. There are at least two priests in the Eparchy of Saint Maron by that name, one of whom was originally a deacon and was ordained priest after being widowed. See: Father Maroun Asmar .

Father Walter Ciszek, memory eternal, is a personal favorite of mine and his cause is something for which I regularly pray. I've posted info here about him several times in the past. Thank you for that summary of important dates in his life. Father Walter was the first Jesuit ordained from the Russicum for the Russian Greek Catholic Church. His cause for canonization was initially advanced by the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Carmelites in Sugarloaf, PA, whom he served as chaplain, and it was promoted by the Ruthenian Eparchy of Passaic up until the time of Bishop Dudick's retirement. The cause has since been transferred to the Latin Diocese of Allentown, in which he was born. See Tribute to Walter Ciszek, SJ . There was an official page for his cause, but I wasn't able to find the link just now.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #115
11/07/04 07:13 PM
11/07/04 07:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member
Orthodox Catholic  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Dear Neill and NYDeacon!

The Antiochian Orthodox Western Riters do a number of things that Eastern Orthodox would balk at . . .

For example, one Antiochian Orthodox Westerner of the Rite of St Tikhon, which is a form of the Sarum/Anglican usage, has devotion to the Anglican saint, King Charles the Martyr.

He has had an icon written of him and even has a shrine for him.

Others have Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament and some other later RC devotions that they brought with them from their Western Churches.

I see nothing wrong with that . . .

To be "Orthodox" has, for many of us for too long, meant the same as being "Eastern."

When the Churches reunite, I don't suppose RC usage will change to adapt to what is acceptable to the Eastern Orthodox and vice-versa.

I attended a Western Rite Antiochian Orthodox conference in Toronto some years back.

They defend their use of statues (such as that of Our Lady of Walsingham) and many, many other Western practices.

In fact, they will even, at the odd time, scoff at certain Eastern practices and affirm Western superiority . . .

Like we do with Western practices and terminology here and elsewhere . . . wink

Alex

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #116
11/07/04 09:30 PM
11/07/04 09:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 21
Florida
NYDeacon Offline
New
NYDeacon  Offline
New

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 21
Florida
Thanks Neil,
That's my man! Maroun Asmar. Nice picture!!! Brings back lots of memories smile I didn't know his wife passed on . . . Life sure has its twists and turns . . . When we moved here (Florida) from NY two years ago, my wife Marianne was fine. Immediately upon arriving her legs swelled up and when she went to the doctor she was diagnosed with severe kidney problems. After exploratory surgery is was discovered that her arteries are blocked and brittle, one kidney is dead and because the other one is working so hard it caused the High Blood Pressure and swelling. The road ahead for her is dyalisis because there is no cure for this problem. Of course God can heal her, so we are praying for a miracle!!!
It seems that the doors of life are constantly being opened and closed and we really don't have much control but just roll with the punches. "God chastises those He loves", it says in Scripture. He must love us very much!!!

Alex, I really felt at home at the Western Orthodox Liturgy, being an old fashioned rc, the Mass was just like the Tridentine Mass of 1962, incense and bells. There were no statues but there were the Stations of the Cross on the side walls and kneelers for the consecration. I don't know if they have adoration, but I asked the priest where or if there was a tabernacle and he pointed out a covered one in the center of the altar, Praise God! I didn't want to genuflect to an empty altar, but only to Christ's true Presence. Thanks again for your posts
John

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #117
11/07/04 10:57 PM
11/07/04 10:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,502
West Coast
Stephanos I Offline
Member
Stephanos I  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,502
West Coast
Don't know where these figures came from, but the last time I checked, Latin Catholics and Eastern Catholics numbered 1 billion, Orthodox 350 million and 86% of America claims to be Christian.
Doesnt look like a decline to me, our Churches here are overflowing.
Stephanos I

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #118
11/07/04 11:57 PM
11/07/04 11:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 657
Philadelphia, PA
OrthoMan Offline
Member
OrthoMan  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 657
Philadelphia, PA
[Doesnt look like a decline to me, our Churches here are overflowing.
Stephanos I]

Really! Is that why so many dioceses are closing churches, seminaries, and convents and filing for bankruptcy?

OrthoMan

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #119
11/08/04 12:21 AM
11/08/04 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,909
USA
Alice Offline
Moderator
Alice  Offline
Moderator
Member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,909
USA
Dear OrthoMan/Bob,

If you reread Fr. Stephanos' post, I think that you will realize that you misread it, and thus, did not answer very charitably to him.

He commented that in the U.S., the CHRISTIAN churches of the Catholic and Orthodox faith are doing just fine!

How will Christianity ever flourish if we always have a chip on the shoulder attitude towards the dreaded 'other', whether that 'other' is 'Orthdoox' or 'Catholic'????

Can't we all just follow Christ's commandment to love one another as HE loves US, sins and all???

*SIGH* frown

In Christ,
Alice

Re: 30 years Christianity will be eclipsed - supposedly #120
11/08/04 12:32 AM
11/08/04 12:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Diak Offline
Member
Diak  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Fr. Ciszek use to assist at St. Michael's Russian Catholic parish in Manhattan. You can find him mentioned at http://stmichaelruscath.org/ if you click on "History".

Father Walter's first visit to St. Michael's was on the very day of his return to the US after he was released from the gulag in 1963. Walter the Confessor, pray to God for us and the Russian Catholic Church.

He also wrote a wonderful forward to Helen Bacovcin's translation of the "Way of the Pilgrim", the best translation IMHO out there.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2019 (Forum 1998-2019). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.1.30 Page Time: 0.025s Queries: 14 (0.007s) Memory: 2.6445 MB (Peak: 2.7647 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2019-07-16 08:27:17 UTC