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Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118456
05/17/02 03:44 PM
05/17/02 03:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Dear Friends,

Problems with married priests, jurisdictional bullying by Rome, Latinization - we've all heard the usual litany of issues.

So, why do Byzantine Catholics stay in union with Rome? Why do we remain Catholic?

Is it only because we are gluttons for punishment?

Alex

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118457
05/17/02 04:22 PM
05/17/02 04:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 291
North America
O
OrthodoxyOrDeath Offline
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OrthodoxyOrDeath  Offline
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O

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North America
I hope you are not asking me.... smile

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118458
05/17/02 05:04 PM
05/17/02 05:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,960
Ohio
J
Joe T Offline
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"So, why do Byzantine Catholics stay in union with Rome?"

Because we are Catholic. biggrin

Joe

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118459
05/17/02 05:08 PM
05/17/02 05:08 PM
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Posts: 393
New Orleans
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Dmitri Rostovski Offline
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Kristos Voskrese,

We stay because that is who we are. We are here because our forfathers knew that union with the Holy Father in combination with Orthodox praxis was the ideal of Chistian faith and worship. Our history may be checked but it seems to me that it is getting better. Our churches are starting to behave more like our Orthodox brothers. It took a few hundred years to educate our Latin firends but it appears to be working Sure, Rome must approve our bishops. That is part of what being in union is about - chains of command. Some see it as a deterent whereas I see it as a comfort. We don't have nearly the amount of jurisdictional problems because of that chain.

As far as matters of the Faith, we have the wealth of the "other" God inspired councils of the Western Church to pull from in those areas not addressed in the first seven. What a treasure we do have. As I see it, we have the best of both East and West. May we always hold fast to this jewel of the Faith.

Dmitri.

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118460
05/17/02 05:09 PM
05/17/02 05:09 PM
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 324
Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, US...
M
Moose Offline
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Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, US...
Alex,

It is indeed a curious thing as to why Byzantine Catholics stay loyal to Rome despite the poor way Rome has treated us and continues to treat us. I think that we stay with Rome because we know that communion with Rome is the crown of Orthodoxy.

Moose

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118461
05/17/02 05:21 PM
05/17/02 05:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Dear OOD,

Not unless you are in union with Old Rome smile .

Alex

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118462
05/17/02 05:22 PM
05/17/02 05:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Dear Cantor Joe,

If I want to be told to behave "just because," I can call my mother smile

Alex

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118463
05/17/02 05:33 PM
05/17/02 05:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,042
Washington, DC
DavidB, the Byzantine Catholic Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:


So, why do Byzantine Catholics stay in union with Rome? Why do we remain Catholic?



I have said it before and I will say it again.

Questions such as this bother me, IMHO they are insulting and disrespectful, sort of impling that I do not have a right to be what I am.

You might as well ask why one is an American or Canadian, when our countries do things that aren't all that nice.


Just my two cents (nickle for you Alex),
David

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: DavidB ]

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118464
05/17/02 05:53 PM
05/17/02 05:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
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Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Dear David,

I'm not being insulting. As you know, I am in union with Rome too.

It's just that we BC's go through a lot with Rome and we wonder what's going on.

Orthodox Christians (who never imply any offense or disrespect smile ) wonder why we go on in union with Rome after such treatment.

So why do we?

We already maintain that union with Rome adds very little to our Apostolic faith. We have our own traditions, canonical regulations and other aspects of our authentic Particular Church lives.

So much of what we are about is Orthodox, except when it comes to the Papacy when we seem to stop being Orthodox and roll over to act like the ultimate papalists, kicking and screaming the whole way.

What does being in union with Rome add to our lives as Eastern Christians theologically, canonically, ritually?

If I were an Orthodox Christian who wandered on this forum to ask this sort of question, it would be like me going onto another Orthodox Forum and asking them why they persist in their schisms.

But I'm Eastern Catholic, you know that, and I know that.

If I can't ask an honest question without appearing threatening, then what's it all worth?

So, I ask you, Big Guy, what are you in union with Rome and would continue to be?

Want to declare your faith? Here's an opportunity.

Go ahead.

Alex

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118465
05/17/02 05:58 PM
05/17/02 05:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,268
Chicago
A
Amadeus Offline
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Dear Alex:

Being a (Roman) Catholic, I should not be butting in here.

But I am moved to put my "imprimatur" on Joe's and Dmitri's posts.

AndG

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118466
05/17/02 06:06 PM
05/17/02 06:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,042
Washington, DC
DavidB, the Byzantine Catholic Offline
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Alex,

For me, I would have to say that it is because it is the Church, the Byzantine Catholic Chuch, of my ancestors.

For me to 'dox would be an affront to them in my mind, after all it was good enough for them and we do have it better than they ever did.

Now I don't know if this answer is good enough for those who would ask this question but it is my answer for now.

I think this may be part of what bothers me about this question. As I also take it as a hit against my family and ancestors.

I do not know much of them, my parent's in their infinite wisdom decided to raise us children with no connection to our ancestors or the "Old Country" so all I know of my families history is the Byzantine Catholic Church.

I do not know if you can understand this or even where I am comming from on this, but here it is.


Your brother in Christ,
David

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: DavidB ]

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118467
05/17/02 06:09 PM
05/17/02 06:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Canada
Dear Amado,

Bene. Optimum est!

Benedicat vos Deus Omnipotens:

Pater et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus. Amen!

Servus Tuum,

Alexius Romanus

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118468
05/17/02 06:11 PM
05/17/02 06:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,172
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline OP
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline OP
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Posts: 26,172
Canada
Dear David,

Actually, what you said is both very honest and something that I share.

And there's no disgrace in that.

When St Vladimir the Great was considering which Church to baptize his people in, he was urged to accept Byzantine Christianity.

After all, he was told, his grandmother, St Olha, had received it.

It therefore must have been good.

And that is why we are Byzantine today.

Alex

Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118469
05/17/02 08:20 PM
05/17/02 08:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 113
Los Angeles
Russian Orthodox-Catholic Offline
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Los Angeles
Christ has Ascended!

Dear friends,

This question has particular relevance for me. I live in an area where there is a vital and vibrant Orthodox mission. The local Byzantine parishes do not have the same strong sense of purpose. I have been repeatedly asked to "convert to Orthodoxy." I don't know how many of you have actually been repeatedly confronted with such a situation. My best answer is that we, Orthodox-Catholics represent the future of Orthodoxy. I have a firm conviction that future Orthodox Christians will revere the clergy and the faithful of the Byzantine Catholic Churches. They will revere us for our sufferings.

It is my understanding of the vocation and the history of the Russian Orthodox-Catholic Church, especially my reading of the life of Hieromartyr Leonid, bishop of the Russian Exarchate (1879-1935) that has led me to this understanding of the role of suffering.

St. Leonid was imprisoned by the Bolsheviks in the great Russian monastery of Solovki. He was imprisoned with many other Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Greek Catholic clergy and laity. He never lost faith and reminded his fellow prisoners "We are suffering for the Eastern schism and there is no need for me to keep on repeating it. We must carry our cross with patience, for we are a burnt-offering without which there can be no spiritual rebirth for Russia."

So our churches have a vocation to suffer and we ought to continue to offer up our sufferings until our sister Orthodox churhces burn with the desire to restore full unity and communion with Rome.

Presviataya Bogoroditza Fatimskaya, spasi nas.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray for us.

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]


Holy Russian Orthodox-Catholic martyrs and confessors, pray to God for us.
Re: Why do BC's stay with Rome? #118470
05/17/02 08:28 PM
05/17/02 08:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 421
Portage, PA
Dragani Offline
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Alex,

If I were to leave the Catholic Church, Archbishop John Ireland (and those like him) would have won. This is my Church too, and I will stay here and fight for my right to be Eastern and Catholic.

Anthony

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