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Stigmata and Saints of the East #118745
11/04/05 02:29 PM
11/04/05 02:29 PM
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Tampa Bay, FL
Michael B Offline OP
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Michael B  Offline OP
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Greetings to all.

I have a question please. My wife and I were discussing Saints this morning and a question came up. Did any of the Saints of the East experience Stigmata?

I have looked at previous posts here and found a few references that only 4 Saints of the West have verified Stigmata, and that none of the East have this.

Is this exclusive to the West?

Thank you.

In Christ,

Michael

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118746
11/04/05 03:27 PM
11/04/05 03:27 PM
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Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Orthodox Catholic  Offline
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Dear Michael,

Saints with the Stigmata have tended to be from the West in general, especially with the great devotion to the Wounds of Christ and the Stations of the Cross etc.

However, thanks to Latinization ( wink ) the Ukrainian Catholic Church has had its Stigmatists such as Steven Navrotsky and some others.

Our old parish priest, Fr. Peter Khomyn,(+eternal memory!) when he was in Western Ukraine under Metropolitan Andrew Sheptytsky, was an "investigator" into such and once related how he himself saw a young girl he was investigating for the stigmata fall into a trance. She not only showed signs of the stigmata in her hands and feet, but what appeared to be a crown of thorns developed across her brow - in front of his eyes!

There has also been a debate in some circles as to the meaning of St Paul's words, "I bear on my body the Marks of the Lord Jesus."

Suffice it to say that this phrase has been accepted by Eastern monastics and also, according to the Old Rite, by laity as a way to indicate the meaning of wearing a Cross to commemorate the Passion of the Lord.

Alex

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118747
11/04/05 03:40 PM
11/04/05 03:40 PM
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Haddonfield, NJ
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Mike C. Offline
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Yes, the stigmata is a Western phenomenon because of the West's emphasis on the Passion, while in the East it is on the Resurrection. There is evidence that many Eastern saints experienced the "Illumination of the Face" as Moses did when he descended from Mt. Sinai.

I think there are more than 4 Saints who experience the Stigmata.

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118748
11/04/05 04:01 PM
11/04/05 04:01 PM
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Amadeus Offline
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A rare occurrence in the East would be that of Myrna Nazzour (nee Mary Kourbet Al-Akhras), the Greek Catholic visionary of Our Lady of Soufanieh (Damascus, Syria).

She was born of a Greek-Catholic father and a Greek Orthodox mother. She is married to Nicolas Nazzour, a Greek Orthodox.

More on Myrna:

http://www.soufanieh.com/eestigma.htm

http://www.soufanieh.com/main.index.html

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118749
11/04/05 04:04 PM
11/04/05 04:04 PM
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Posts: 937
Tampa Bay, FL
Michael B Offline OP
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Dear Alex,

Thank you so much for your information. I feel it is a bit strange that this type of miracle only happens in the West and through "Latinization" but I will accept that. smile

We missed you so much!

May Our Lord and Savior always guide you!

Michael

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118750
11/04/05 04:06 PM
11/04/05 04:06 PM
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Tampa Bay, FL
Michael B Offline OP
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Michael B  Offline OP
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Dear Mike C.

I did a Google on "Illumination of the Face" but was unsuccessful.

Could you provide me with some more resources on this? Is this similar to the Transfiguration of St. Seraphim of Sarov? I hold to him dearly.

Thank you.

Michael

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118751
11/04/05 04:17 PM
11/04/05 04:17 PM
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Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Michael,

The Church does investigate cases of Stigmata very closely and is often very disinclined to pronounce favourably even after all the evidence is gathered and analyzed (i.e. St Pio of Pietrelcina who has yet to be declared a Stigmatist!).

There have been those who have somehow "conjured" up bleeding from their hands, as related to me by one individual involved in such investigations and these are of course spurious "stigmatists."

However, I don't see how one can deny that the tremendous focus on the Passion of Christ on the Cross (as occurs in the West) does not somehow contribute to the development of the Stigmata - as miraculous as legitimate cases are.

This devotion to the Passion was also prominent among Orthodox Saints of the Baroque era, such as St Tikhon of Zadonsk who had life size iconic representations of a kind of Way of the Cross or Christ carrying His Cross to Calvary in his cell.

In fact, St Tikhon's rule for renewed evangelization included meditation on the Passion of Christ, reading of the Gospels, the Jesus Prayer and frequent Holy Communion.

The Orthodox Akathist to the Passion of our Lord was written, I believe, by St Innocent of Odessa, who, in the earlier version that was translated into English by the Anglican John Mason Neale, included a "prayer to the Five Wounds of Christ." This prayer was also included in the Akafistnyk published at L'viv in 1893 (and I have a copy).

The "Passia" service of Orthodoxy, popular in Russia in areas, was a response to the popularity of the Stations of the Cross in the 17th and 18th centuries.

In fact, I have an Orthodox publication of the Stations of the Cross from Eastern Europe where the Orthodox translator includes a prayer for "the dissemination of this beautiful devotion of the Stations of the Cross to all Orthodox parishes." (!)

Among the known stigmatists of the EC Church is St Pavel Goydicz. He developed the stigmata while in prison and is sometimes depicted with bandaged hands.

But, truth be told, he was very devoted to the Passion of Christ, the Immaculate Conception, the Sacred Hearts and Adoration of the Holy Eucharist.

He may even have worn, yes, a Miraculous Medal . . . wink

With apologies to our very Eastern posters here. Hopefully, you will not have read this post prior to having your lunch . . . wink

God bless, Michael!

Alex

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118752
11/04/05 04:45 PM
11/04/05 04:45 PM
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Posts: 937
Tampa Bay, FL
Michael B Offline OP
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Dear Alex,

I am having trouble finding more detailed information on St. Pavel Goydicz. Do you or anyone else have any links that could help me learn more about St. Pavel?

I have great respect for St. Theodore Romzha and "assume" that St. Pavel was also part of the Undergroung Church?

Thank you so much!

Michael

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118753
11/04/05 06:28 PM
11/04/05 06:28 PM
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Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Michael,

Someone here once posted a picture of a stained glass representation of St Pavel with bandaged hands. My grandfather, a priest from Ukraine, was the first to tell me about the people's devotion to this stigmatist.

And he and St Theodore Romzha are both saints of the Ruthenian Church of the "Soviet Yoke."

He would be "Blessed Paul Goydicz" - I refer to him as "Saint" in accordance with how I have been taught here by Diak and the Administrator - Eastern "radicals" that they are smile

Alex

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118754
11/05/05 03:41 AM
11/05/05 03:41 AM
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Rain drenched California
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griego catolico Offline
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Alex,

It is good to hear from you again! smile

What a coincidence that this topic should be discussed!

Two weeks ago I was at Saint Mary Byzantine Catholic Cathedral in Sherman Oaks, CA.

On the back wall where the choir loft is, there is a mural of Eastern Saints(Basil, Gregory, Constantine,Helen, Macrina,Cyril, Methodius, Josaphat, etc). Included among them are Blessed Theodore Romzha and Blessed Pavel Goydicz (they were included long before they were beatified).

I was up in the choir loft as part of a tour I was giving to some fellow Roman-rite Catholics who were visiting for the first time. As I was relating to them the history of Blesseds Theodore and Pavel, I was surprised to see the marks of stigmata on Blessed Pavel's hands. This was the first time that I noticed it before.

So, there is at least one Byzantine Catholic cathedral that depicts Blessed Pavel as a stigmatist.

Blesseds Theodore and Pavel, pray for us!

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118755
11/05/05 09:39 AM
11/05/05 09:39 AM
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incognitus Offline
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There is, of course, Saint Gregory Palamas, who (according to the Synaxarion in the Church-Slavonic edition of the Lenten Triodion) was a stigmatic.

Incognitus

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118756
11/08/05 12:07 AM
11/08/05 12:07 AM
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Haddonfield, NJ
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Mike C. Offline
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Dear Michael:

I really don't have any more information on the "Illumination of the Face". It is an Eastern phenomenon, as is the "Gift of Tears".

Remember, the Stigmata not only includes the wounds on the feet, side, and hands, and sometimes the forehead, but also, the heart (St. Teresa of Avila, St. Philip Neri), and can be invisible. (St. Catherine di Ricci).

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118757
11/08/05 12:46 AM
11/08/05 12:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 937
Tampa Bay, FL
Michael B Offline OP
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Michael B  Offline OP
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Mike,

Thank you for the clarification. I will ask around the parish for more information on this. I am certain a few will be delighted to teach me more.

Take care.

Michael :-)

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118758
11/19/05 06:24 PM
11/19/05 06:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
The Most Corrupt State
Dr. Eric Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Michael,

My grandfather, a priest from Ukraine, was the first to tell me about the people's devotion to this stigmatist.


Alex
Alex,
Your Grandfather was a priest? That's beautiful!!!

Re: Stigmata and Saints of the East #118759
11/24/05 07:42 PM
11/24/05 07:42 PM
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Posts: 543
tornado alley
monksilouan Offline
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tornado alley
I treasure a deep love and veneration for Saint Gemma Galgani. She certainly had the stigmata and received this Sacred Sign while concealed under the mantle of the Mother of God. She was a particular favorite of Saint Maximilian Kolbe.
Blessings, Silouan, Mary's monk

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