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Messianic Prophecies #130516 03/18/03 01:38 PM
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BradM Offline OP
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Hello everyone,

I would like to ask how would you respond to a Jewish person who said Jesus never fulfilled these Messianic prophecies:

The following Messianic prophecies were never fulfilled.

* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership. (Isaiah 11:4) - Did not fulfill
* He will be descended from David HaMelech (Isaiah 11:1) and come to Zion. - Without a Jewish father, He did not fulfill
* Leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4). - He died unknown and without guidance sought - He did not fulfill
* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8 ). - He did not fulfill
* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9) - He did not fulfill
* Knowledge of HaShem (Yahweh) will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9). - There is polytheism - He did not fulfill
* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23). - He did not fulfill
* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19). - He did not fulfill
* Jews will have returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12) - He did not fulfill
* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11). - He did not fulfill
* The Sanhedrin will be re-established. (Isaiah 1:26) - He did not fulfill
* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55). - He did not fulfill
* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvos. - He did not fulfill
* The whole world will worship the One G-d of Israel. (Isaiah 2:17) - He did not fulfill

*** *** *** ***

Also, if you say some of those will be fulfilled in Jesus' Second Coming a common Jewish response is where in the Hebrew scriptures does it say that the Moshiach (Messiah) will come twice?

Which of the above can be placed under the Second Coming?

I would like an answer to these two questions also. I ask these questions because I do not know the OT very well and I was asked these questions by a Jew who wants to refute Jesus' fulfillment of Messianic prophecies.

Thank you.

In Christ Jesus and Mary Immaculate,

BradM

Re: Messianic Prophecies #130517 03/18/03 02:03 PM
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Dear Brad,

As a general rule, it is not a good thing to engage in these kind of polemics.

The problem in interpreting the Messianic prophecies of the Hebrew Scriptures is already evident in the time of Jesus, where, in response to His miracles, the people want to make him into an earthly king of Israel etc.

The issue is really how the Messiah relates to the promises God make to Abraham - "I will make of you a great people, I will bless this people and through this people I will bring my blessings to all mankind."

A focus on an earthly kingship for the Messiah is that it can relate more to nation-building and restoration than to spiritual realities.

The argument over this fundamental divergence of interpretation of the Messianic prophecies is what is at stake.

So if the "discussion" is about "This is what it says" and "How did Yeshua fulfill that?" you are going to get nowhere fast.

If such a discussion must be had, then it should be about the interpretation of the prophecy, is there only one, and how could such be fulfilled in the Person and Work of Yeshua haMashiach.

Alex

Re: Messianic Prophecies #130518 03/18/03 06:40 PM
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Andrew J. Rubis Offline
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Dear BradM,

If you don't know OT, then stop debating with knowledgable Jews in their own territory!

The NT says that He will come a second time to rule. Right now, somebody else rules. Remember who is the Prince of this world (a clue here, it's not our guy). The Jews don't accept the NT scriptures as the revealed word of God, so how can one discuss this with them?

I grew up in a 50% Jewish neighborhood, I've been to 11 Bar Mitzphahs, and I moved into another neighborhood where the most numerous type of temple is the synagogue. I love them as my neighbors. We visit each other. But I never talk about Christ with them unless they really ask. I try to live out Christ amongst them. And trust me, it's always difficult because they can spot our hypocrisy in a flash.

I never present Christ as an objective reality like "the sky is blue and therefore...." I would say "we believe that Christ will come again and that is why we live in faith." Not everyone believes that Christ has come the first time. If I believe that "the sky is green," then you'll never get to the "therefore."

In Christ,
Andrew.

Re: Messianic Prophecies #130519 03/18/03 07:10 PM
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Dear Reader Andrew,

There is a story about when the Messiah will come in glory to earth.

At that time, the Jews will ask Him, "This is your first time, right?" and the Christians will say, "You've been here once before, haven't you?"

And the Messiah will simply smile and say, "No comment."

Alex

Re: Messianic Prophecies #130520 03/18/03 10:57 PM
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Gideon Offline
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If you look out across a field, at a great distance you may be able to see a barn, a tree and a field of sheep. What you cannot see is how far apart they are. This is the same with the Prophets of the Old Testament. They know the events that will happen but it hard to say what comes first and how much time (space) is in between the events.


Abba Isidore the Priest:
When I was younger and remained in my cell I set no limit to prayer; the night was for me as much the time of prayer as the day.
(p. 97, Isidore 4)
Re: Messianic Prophecies #130521 03/18/03 11:31 PM
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Logos - Alexis Offline
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Brad,

Whether or not its spiritually beneficial (it's probably not), I am engaged in discussing this with a Catholic-turned-Jewish apologist. We've been having quite an interesting time. If you'd like, I can send you our conversations via e-mail. Thanks.

Logos Teen

Re: Messianic Prophecies #130522 03/19/03 01:53 AM
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BradM Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:
Brad,

Whether or not its spiritually beneficial (it's probably not), I am engaged in discussing this with a Catholic-turned-Jewish apologist. We've been having quite an interesting time. If you'd like, I can send you our conversations via e-mail. Thanks.

Logos Teen
Logos Teen,

Sure send it to me...my email address is in a private message I just sent to you.

BradM


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