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Re: Greek Orthodox and KJV & NKJV Readings #130858
12/04/02 10:30 PM
12/04/02 10:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 441
McKees Rocks, PA
Fr. Thomas Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Fr. Thomas,

As for the "Ukrainian cultural content" issue, having a pastor with a name like "Fr. Soroka" would have satisfied even my most nationalistic uncles!!

Alex
BTW, no relation to Archbishop (Metropolitan?) Stefan Soroka of the Ukrainian Catholics. That I know of. biggrin

Priest Thomas

Re: Greek Orthodox and KJV & NKJV Readings #130859
12/04/02 11:06 PM
12/04/02 11:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,363
Virginia!
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John
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John
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Virginia!
Quote
Originally posted by Fr. Thomas:
Just a follow up to my message about the OT and NT canon, there is a very good article in the Jerome Biblical Commentary, near the back on the canon of scripture. When I get a chance, I'll post info from it. I was re-reading it today and was amazed to read that the Second Council of Trullo (692?) still had listed several books that are not canonical scripture today, and did not list a few that are. The whole history of the canon of scripture turns biblical fundamentalism on its head, I think.

Anyway, just thought I'd pass that along.

Priest Thomas
Fr. Thomas,

Thanks for the reference. Are you referring to section 67, "Canonicity", pages 515-524? I've seen it but I admit I've never spent much time working through that section. Usually I just look up the section of scripture that I'm studying.

I found the discussion of the OT at Trent (subsection 42) but I haven't found your refrence to Trullo.

As an interesting aside, I think the only OT book that is part of the canon for us in the East that is not include by the West and is proclaimed in the Divne Services is the Prayer of Manassas. It is taken in full at Great Compline.

Admin

Re: Greek Orthodox and KJV & NKJV Readings #130860
12/05/02 12:08 AM
12/05/02 12:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 441
McKees Rocks, PA
Fr. Thomas Offline
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Administrator,

Yes, that's the correct section and pages. Note paragraphs 11 and 84. It basically states that there were "several lists" of scripture presented(presumably conflicting) and that no resolution was given. Specifically, St. John's Apocalypse was completely missing (they cite St. Gregory Nazianzen) and that another list casts doubt about Hebrews, four of the Catholic epistles (read the section on II Peter) and the Apocalypse (Revelation).

They also note (par. 85) that the Syrian church (Jacobite?) was very late in accepting even the four gospels (early 5th century)! They used something called the Diatessaron http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html . They also considered III Corinthians to be scripture. Only 17 books in their NT at the time of St. Ephraem the Syrian.

It's a very good article to read. The entire book drives me crazy, however, with their order of biblical books listed according to date of writing, or some bizzare system they came up with! Agh!

Priest Thomas

Re: Greek Orthodox and KJV & NKJV Readings #130861
12/05/02 10:21 AM
12/05/02 10:21 AM
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Posts: 26,111
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas!

Yes, but it would have to HAVE a head in the first place if it wanted to stand on it . . . smile

Forgive me . . .

Alex

Re: Greek Orthodox and KJV & NKJV Readings #130862
12/05/02 11:39 AM
12/05/02 11:39 AM
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Posts: 6,363
Virginia!
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John
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Fr. Thomas,

I glanced the website you referenced. The Diatessaron appears to be simply a harmony of the 4 Gospels into one narrative. I immediately thought of the Passion Gospel at Holy Friday Vespers which combines the Gospels into one narrative and then thought about the 12 Gospels on Thr night which has all the repetitions.

The comments on the Apocalypse (Revelation) are very interesting. Maybe this is the reason that Revelation is not part of our lectionary?

I found section 47 (The Canon in the Oriental Churches) to be interesting. It states that there was harmony between the Greeks and the Latins on the LXX at the beginning of the Middle Ages (and even at the failed Council of Florence). It appears to be blaming Protestants for the later disputes and for the Russians excluding the deuterocanonical books. This doesn't make sense since the disputed portions of Daniel are read in our Great Saturday Vesper / Basil Divine Liturgy. That makes me wonder if the Russians kept the traditional readings at that time or if they altered them?

I certainly agree with your comments on the layout of the JBC. It is quite horrible. I have been telling myself for several years now that I should get a set of Bible tabs and mark the start of each book. What I would really like to see done is to get it republished in two volumes with the books in the traditional order and a larger print.

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