Dear Friends,

What is the theology behind kneeling for prayer at Pentecost?

One Pentecostal friend once suggested it was so that the people praying, should they be "slain in the Spirit," wouldn't have far to fall down . . .

We do we kneel on a Sunday at Pentecost?

Alex

I don't know what Eastern Catholics do, but the Orthodox only kneel on the vespers of Trinity Sunday.

I think it is either the 20th or 26th canon of the 1st Ecumenical Synod that encourages NO kneeling on Sundays and on Pentecost.

The Theology plagerized from OCIC...

Subsequently, the First Ecumenical Council found it necessary to make this legally binding by a special canon obligatory for the entire Church. The canon of this council states: "Since there are some persons who kneel in church on Sundays and on the days of Pentecost, with a view to preserving uniformity in all parishes, it has seemed best to the holy council for prayers to be offered to God while standing" (Canon XX).

Pointing out this canon, St. Basil the Great explains the rationale and meaning of the practice established by it thus: "We stand up when praying on the first of the week, though not all of us know the reason. For it is not only that it serves to remind us that when we have risen from the dead together with Christ we ought to seek the things above, in the day of resurrection of the grace given us, by standing at prayer, but that it also seems to serve in a way as a picture of the expected age. Wherefore, being also the starting point of days, though not the first with Moses, yet it has been called the first. For it says: "The evening and the morning were the first day' (Gen. 1:5), on the ground that it returns again and again. The eighth, therefore, is also the first, especially as respects that really first and true eighth day, which the Psalmist too has mentioned in some of the superscriptions of his psalms, serving to exhibit the state which is to succeed this period of time, the unceasing day, the day without a night that follows, the day without successor, the never-ending and unaging age. Of necessity, therefore, the Church teaches her children to fulfill their obligations to pray therein while standing up, in order by constantly reminding them of the deathless life to prevent them from neglecting the provisions for the journey thither. And every Pentecost is a reminder of the expected resurrection in the age to come. For that one first day, being multiplied seven times over, constitutes the seven weeks of the holy Pentecost. For by starting from the first day of the week, one arrives on the same day… The laws of the Church have taught us to prefer the upright posture at prayer, thus transporting our mind, so to speak, as a result of a vivid and clear suggestions, from the present age to the things come in the future. And during each kneeling and standing up again we are in fact showing by our actions that is was through sin that we fell to earth, and that through the kindness of the One Who created us we have been called back to Heaven…" (Canon XCI of St. Basil the Great). The three well-known kneeling prayers of Pentecost composed by this great Father of the Church are thus not read at third hour, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles, nor at Liturgy on Pentecost, but at vespers, which is already part of the following day, after the Entrance. The holy Father was determined not to break the ancient custom of the Church.

In Canon XC of the Council of Trullo, held in conjunction with the Sixth Ecumenical Council, we read: "We have received it canonical from our God-bearing Fathers not to bend the knee on Sundays when honoring the resurrection of Christ. Since this observation may not be clear to some of us, we are making it plain to the faithful, that after the entrance of those in holy orders into the sacrificial altar on the evening of the Saturday in question, let none of them bend the knee until the evening of the following Sunday, when, following the entrance after the lamps have been lit, again bending knees, we thus begin to offer our prayers to the Lord. For, inasmuch as we have received it that the night succeeding Saturday was the precursor of our Savior's rising, we commence our hymns at this point in a spiritual manner, ending the festival by passing out of darkness into light, in order that we may hence celebrate the resurrection together for a whole day and a whole night." John Zonaras, explaining the canon, says: "Various canons have made it a law not to kneel on Sundays or during the fifty days of Pentecost, and Basil the Great also supplied the reasons for which this was forbidden. This canon decrees only with regard to Sunday, clearly indicates from what hour and until hour to kneel, and says: "On Saturday, after the entrance of the celebrants into the altar at vespers, no one may bend the knee until vespers on Sunday itself, when, i.e., again the entrance of the celebrants takes place: for we do not transgress by bending the knee and praying in such a manner from that time on. For Saturday night is considered the night of the day of resurrection, which, according to the words of this canon, we must pass in the chanting of psalms, carrying the feast over from darkness to light, and in such manner celebrate the resurrection for the entire night and day" (Book of the Canons With Interpretations, p. 729).

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxyOrDeath ]

I also wanted to mention, and thought it better on this thread, that protrations and many other traditions are important, like you say, because they all help to change and transform you.

Folks,

How does the issue of kneeling relate to a Focus on Scripture?

I would like to know what biblical texts are quoted and how they are used in these prayers. This may bring things into focus.

Any observations?

Joe
Moderator

Dear Cantor Joe,

I will bring my scriptural references with me next time - good point.

Alex

"I don't know what Eastern Catholics do, but the Orthodox only kneel on the vespers of Trinity Sunday."
-- OrthodoxyOrDeath

I would just like to let you know that Old Believers kneel on Sundays and also do prostrations on this day. In my opinion, they are as Orthodox as it gets, so the question must be asked "What's the deal with the Old Believers kneeling?" (in a Seinfeld voice)

Daniil

PS Ukrainian Greco-Catholics Catholics do the same as the other Slav Orthodox.

Well, they could be called Orthodox in a sense, and I of course would be the first to acclaim their steadfastness but: How could they justify their existence without a bishop and no claim of theological heresy?

As far as kneeling, it is a well known fact and unmistakable mark of Holy Tradition (as evidenced by St. Basil the Great for one (and there are many more (and I have read them (can I do this with parenthesis?)))), that it was handed down by the apostles that we are not to kneel on Sundays and between Pascha and Pentecost. Everyone has heard of the many things we know only through Holy Tradition and not scripture, well, this is one of them.

So with that I can only say the Old Believers should have returned to not just Greek tradition, but Holy Tradition when they had the chance.

So how Orthodox are they really?

Can we rope this topic into a scriptural context? Aside from jurisdiction affiliations and church communions, I would like to know what biblical basis are in the kneeling prayers. Maybe you all can share your insight with the rest of us? Thanks.

Joe
Moderator