This past Saturday I attended the graduation of one of my nephews from a local Moravian College. He was awarded his second Masters degree which was a Masters of Divinity. He is a Lutheran with hopes of evenutally becoming a Lutheran Minister. After the ceremony we had a long conversation. Some of what he told me both disturbed and amazed me. It certainly shows the result of the Protestant concept of individual interpretation of Scripture. First off, he received a low grade on one of the papers he was required to do because he referred to God in the masculine gender by using the word 'he'. He challanged the professor and was told by him that the grade still stands as long as he insists of referring to God by gender identity. Secondly he was required to spend time as a counsellor at one of the major city hospitals in his area. He works with two Protestant Chaplains
both of which DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE RESSURECTION OF CHRIST! One of them does not believe in the Incarnation. Yet both of them consider themselves Christian Chaplins that have the responsibility of counselling Christians in distress!
If this is what Protestantism has come down to than thank God I'm Orthodox!

OrthoMan

Slava Jesu Kristu,

I don't think his experience is the norm. I know a few protestant Ministers who are very gounded in Bibilical Faith.

Dmitri

Can it really be called a biblical faith when they ignore tradition and live on their own intrepetaion of the bible?

[Can it really be called a biblical faith when they ignore tradition and live on their own intrepetaion of the bible?]

Thank you! That is the point I was trying to make.

OrthoMan

My thought,
they live on their own interpretation because then they are not held accountable. If they accept the teachings of the Catholic or Orthodox Churches, then they are not only held accountable to God, but also the magisteriums of these Churches who were given the apostolic authority to do so.

Rose

I do not believe that God is male or female, but a person should not get a low grade on a paper for using the word "he", thats the word used in the Bible in John3:16! And If he would of used she it wouldnt be wrong either since thats what God is called in Proverbs chap8 and 9. And as for the ressurection and the incarnation, THOSE ARE REAL! and any one who doesnt believe in them is not a christian! Another interesting thing to think about is this, protestants took away some of the sacraments! Confirmation,confession and anointing!guese it didnt ft with there interpretation of the Bible, although all three are in the Bible!

HECK! I hear that some churches take away the sacrament of baptism and make communion out to be a simple memorial meal! lets read what the Bible says on the sacraments, Matt28:19(baptism) Acts8:14-17(confirmation) John6:56(Communion) John20:22,23(Confession) James5:14,15(Anointing) can a preist be married? Eastern Churches say yes, but celibacy is still honored as it is in the Bible Matt19:12, do protestants honor celibacy? NOT MUCH!

I know a few who are as well, but not very many. What this man ran into is quite typical.

Dan Lauffer (United Methodist Pastor for 27 years).

Dan,
Once again I ask, Can it really be called a biblical faith when they ignore tradition and live on their own intrepetaion of the bible?

We only have the Bible because of Tradition. Without Tradition, which all protestants deny, we have no Bible.

David

We have a local Arab Evangelical congregation, associated with the Presbyterians, who have done what others have not been able to do with any success: convert Muslims to Christ.

At least some Protestants are able to do what Orthodox and Catholics are not very successful at: take the Gospel to Muslims and save their souls.

My point is not to criticize Catholics and Orthodox for their lack of missionary success among the Muslims, but to point out that some Protestants do good work for the Lord Jesus; work that others are incapable of doing. They must be the servants of the Lord: "...those who are not against us are for us.."

Hint: Catholics and Orthodox seem to think if you pound down Muslims with insults, you prepare them for "conversion."

Dumb! Actually, by doing that, you only prepare them for "reconversion" to Islam.

Peace in the Lord Jesus,

Abdur

PS: Do the Catholic and Orthodox churches recognize Protestant baptism?

Abdur,

Some very good points. Fr. Seraphim Rose of blessed memory wrote about this very topic.

David,

I hadn't answered before because I assumed your question to be rhetorical.

"Dan,
Once again I ask, Can it really be called a biblical faith when they ignore tradition and live on their own intrepetaion of the bible?"

The answer is "Of course not!" That's one of the reasons I left.

Dan Lauffer

Traveler,

The BC Church recognizes "protestant" baptism. That is why I was only Chrismated and not rebaptized. Good thing too. My body does not look so good without covering.

Without tradition there is no bible . . .

So very true. Unfortunately, the insta-burger salvation of Protestatnism is very contagious. Last night I was surfin' the web and found some statistics in Ukraine that show that protestantism is almost as big distirct by district as the Orthodox Church.

Orthodoxy and Catholicism is being choked by 2,000 years of "cultural baggage" and as a result, people are attracted to what they see as a true "biblical" New Testament Church. Meanwhile we are arguing over validity of Sacraments, whose church this is, juridictional rights, etc. We are all entangled with our scruples and the Protestants use this to prostyletize our faithful. And they have no concern about "sheep stealing". To them, we are phonies and the more of us they can take, the better for them.

I believe there are good Protestant Christians in the world. Their theology may be kooky, but they still struggle to be a good Christian as they understand a good Christian should be. Does
God look at all Protestants with disfavor? I doubt it.

ALity

[ 06-21-2002: Message edited by: ALity ]

I agree with Ality. It does seem the Orthodox and Catholics spend of much time hating one another that you have to wonder when do they have the time to love Christ and love like Christ?

Muslims, desparate to know Christ and escape hostile religiosity, would look elsewhere for the truth, I am afraid.

If a Muslim convert to Christ stands the chance of losing his family, friends, career, or worse, by that very act, being immersed in the hostile environment of Orthodoxy or Catholicism must be avoided.

Perhaps in God's economia, He has birthed Protestantism for the mission of bringing Muslims to Christ. Besides, the root beliefs of Protestantism would have a certain affinity to Islam that Muslims would find similar and attractive.

But even if a former Muslim finds a spiritual home within Protestantism, he would do well to study the spiritual Christian masters of the East, and I would suppose, the masters of the Catholic West, as well.

God is in charge. Thank God!

Salaam in the Christ,

Abdur

If I’m not mistaken in my(limited) understanding the Holy Scriptures & Tradition, Jesus Christ the risen Lord was God incarnate and both Scripture & Tradition speak of him as a man. Understanding the Faith is important and we should not alter the Tradition of referring to God in the masculine form. (we recite He will come again to judge the living and the , not It will come to judge the living and the )

Protestantism in my experience does tend to doubt the claims of the Holy Bible in general, especially when it comes to the main stream denominations such as Presbyterian, Evangelical Lutheran, Anglican, etc. Don’t get me wrong not all the members doubt, but almost all the clergy I have spoken with or meet with in these denominations have doubted the validity of the Bible as a teaching tool. In a way I fully appreciate there view, if it were not for men (& women) such as these I would never have searched deeper into the mystery that is our Faith in Christ.

[ 06-22-2002: Message edited by: Odo ]

Dear ALity,

Thanks for that post. There are a lot of good Protestant Christians out there ... and we can learn a lot from them:

1.) how to become zealous Bible Christians ("without the bible-thumping/bashing")
2.) how to become more vocal concerning our faith in the workplace (Jesus called ALL believers to make disciples.. it is NOT jut the job of the priests)
3.) how to be more outspoken concerning homosexual relations (RC's and
BC's are quite vocal on abortion issues, but employ a silent pulpit when it comes to homosexual relations; at least that has been my observation and experience)
4.) they can teach how to cultivate the gift of prayer (it would be nice if all of Christianity would learn how to "talk" to God without having to read the prayers or to rely solely on memorized liturgical responses)
5.)how to culturally relate to everyone in evangelization (Orthodox and BC churches are for the most part organized ethnically which will not always be the best conditions for witnessing for the Lord)

We must remember that ALL wisdom comes from God, whether it comes from an Evangelical or Orthodox or Catholic. St. Paul reminds us of the "spiritual dangers" when one thinks they "belong to Apollo, and another belongs to Cephas". We all belong to the body of Christ. The Protestants may not have the "fullness of the faith", but they certainly cultivate a personal relationship with the Lord.

As Scott Hahn, RC Theologian puts it; "Catholics need to become Bible Christians, and Bible Christians need to become Catholic.

In His Service,
Walter Metrick