amkenon(?) mentioned here that a friend had converted to the Catholic Church from the Mormons and has not told the family. I have heard of a number of cases where families have refused to honor the spiritual home of people who have made such changes, when they became ill or passed away. I would hate to think that this friend was denied the Sacraments or a Christian burial due to the family's having been kept in the dark.

Dear Staretsky,

I think you raise two separate issues here, both of which I have confronted at one time or another.

The first one is that person who hasn't told anyone what his true religion really is for fear of offending relatives etc.

I myself was a best man for a couple where the bride had become a Catholic.

She did this on the sly so as not to offend her quite anti-Catholic parents.

She even arranged to be married in the Protestant church in which her parents and grandparents were married and this by Presbyterian and Lutheran clergy (her husband was a former Lutheran, long since converted to Catholicism).

Their Catholic parish priest simply recognized the marriage as a Catholic one afterwards.

They even had their children baptized twice . . .

The first time in the Catholic Church (the priest told him that, as far as he was concerned, his baptism was the first and only one he had performed on their children) and the next time, with much pomp and circumstance in her parents' Protestant parish.

I guess they're figuring on the parents going to their reward first so that this whole thing needn't ever be discovered.

The second point is the case of those who convert to either Orthodoxy or Catholicism, but whose conversion is not respected by the family after death etc.

Normally, surviving spouses will usually fight for their deceased loved ones' Rites . .er. . Rights.

My cousin died of cancer at age 40. He had become a Roman Rite Catholic, switching over from the Ukrainian Rite.

He told his (Roman Rite) wife that he didn't want the Byzantine Catholic Church offices said over him as these reminded him of a repressive home environment etc.

He didn't tell his mother before his death however.

A great fight erupted with his mother blaming his wife for "converting" him "posthumously."

There were two funerals, as it turned out, one in the Roman, the other in the Ukrainian Church.

As the Roman priest, quite innocent in the whole thing, was coming down the aisle, one of my aunt's confederates actually lunged at him with her fist, so great was the tension.

The whole thing angers me just thinking about it.

Conversion is not only a matter of pure faith, it never is.

There are many social and cultural considerations too.

As for how we can iron them out, it is difficult.

When it comes to Ukrainians, it is better to just leave them alone, I suppose . . .

Alex

Dear Orthodox Catholic:

I have to admit that I had to read your post three times to make sure I was reading it right. Talk about Slavic temperament!
Can I use some of your examples in the future when someone tries to tell me that in the Catholic Church there is more unity, spirituality, and equality than in the Orthodox Church. You guys are as nutty as we are at times!

OrthoMan

And people say that our Churches are so different that it will take forever to renew communion.!

Go figure - we share our nutsiness(and our love!) Seems like a good start to me!

Love the anecdotes, keep them coming! Your focus is quite clear Alex!

Sorry for the pain which started this thread though. Family and loved ones are so powerful as we take on adult responsibilities. May they nurture us in the resposnible exercise of freedom!

Dear Inawe and Orthoman,

Good points (re: nuttiness).

I even appreciate Brendan's OCA cynicism about the Old Calendar.

But even if our bishops got together and decreed that we all follow the Reformed Julian Calendar, they would still have to get past my aunt . . .

The Orthodox members of my family, who celebrate the holidays with us, have nothing against us Catholics, as long as we behave and adhere to the tried and true Orthodox traditions - which I agree with.

The Catholic members adhere to those traditions out of a sense of ethnic patriotism, on the other hand.

I'm sometimes jealous of you Americans down there . . .

Alex

Slave Jesu Kristu,

Might one consider haveing a Living Will done? Even if the will is not honored by the family, at least the intentions would be known officially. Of course, in matters of the faith, the law really has little to do with it...

Alexii

Dear Alexi,

Yes, but in matters of Ukrainian families, the law has even less to do with everything . . .

My cousin should have spoken with his mother, and he failed to do so, leaving his widow badly exposed.

Nothing ill of the dead, but I know he knows I'm right.

Alex