Thank you for the compliment, Gordo. I appreciate that.

My Grandma is doing excellent.

Hello,
I am a Latin-Rite teen but I hope I will be welcomed in this forum as a fellow Catholic. I have a few questions as well as a few comments but I will get to them later. questions. Where is the Tabernacle in your church. In the Latin-Rite we have Adoration and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, do you have the same? I would like to attend a Divine Liturgy soon, is there any type of text of your Liturgy online that I can read before I go so I know what I am doing when I go?

Tom

Dear Tom,

You are most welcome on this forum, my dear brother in the Lord. I am a Byzantine Greek Catholic teen of the Russian rite, and I would be glad to help you out.

The tabernacle, which is called an 'ark' in the Eastern Catholic Churches, is placed on the altar. It is usually in the shape of a Byzantine Church, with domes and everything. We do not typically have Benediction and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, but we do, of course, believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. While Benediction/Adoration is a venerable practice, it is one that is not traditionally practiced by Eastern Catholics.
For a text of the Divine Liturgy, check out http://www.byzantines.net .
Feel free to contact me privately at wjtherman@webtv.net if you have any further questions.

God be with you, now and ever, and unto the ages of ages!

In Christ,
Feodosij, rab' Bozhij
(Theodosius, servant of God)

Anyone who wishes to post on byzcath.org is most welcome here. Have no hesitation, Tom, about posting here-- there is no question about your being here.

Just one point: in the East, the Holy Eucharist is more seen as 'food for the journey' than as an object for worship/adoration. While Eastern Christians absolutely believe that Christ is present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist, we don't focus on veneration as the main focus of the Eucharist.

Elizabeth, as someone who is taking care of an elderly Mom who is living with paralysis as a result of a stroke, I understand your concern and efforts for your Grandma. I pray that God blesses your good efforts and restores her to strength.

Blessings!!

Hi Tom,
I am a Byzantine-Ruthenian teen, and I have heard (though I'm not sure) that one of the reasons the Western Church started Adoration and Benediction was to combat the Protestant denial of the real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and since the True Presence has never been challenged in the Eastern churches we focus less on revering it in the tabernacle and more on actually recieving it.
In my Eastern Christian Formation class we just finished a year studying the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostym - it is amazing how rich in tradition and history it is. I think you will find it very interesting, even if for the first time it seems very different from what you're used to.
Katie

Thanks! I'll pray for your mom, too.

Hello all,

I just want to thank you all for the warm welcome I received and the prompt answers to my questions. I just want to make say a few things. First, I hope I didnt give the impression by my question that Romans do not focus on receiving the Eucharist, because we do, unless I have misunderstood what you were trying to say. Actually I think ever since Vatican II Eucharistic Adoration has lowered a little. I know in my parish we only have it 2 or 3 times a year. Some parishes have it, I think, once a month and some have it perpetually.They are usually the more traditional parishes.(Not that my parish is one of those progressive, modern,(bordering on being illicit), parishes. Secondly, in response to what Elizabeth11 said at the beginning of this particular topic. If there are teens leaving the Byzantine-Rite for the Latin-Rite. There are definitely teens who would like to see what the Eastern church is all about. Myself included. If they only knew about it! I think more Roman teens need to be taught that there is an Eastern part to the Church. I only learned that there were Eastern-Rites to the church a few years ago. I think there are a lot of teens that might not like some of the modern things going on in the Roman-Rite Church and would like to experience an Eastern way of worship.
As for Romans starting Eucharistic Adoration as a rebuttle to Protestants, I am not sure, But I will certainly ask one of the priests at my parish for ya.

God Bless,
Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 05-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 05-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 05-15-2000).]

>>>I am a Byzantine-Ruthenian teen, and I have heard (though I'm not sure) that one of the reasons the Western
Church started Adoration and Benediction was to combat the Protestant denial of the real Presence of Christ in the
Eucharist, and since the True Presence has never been challenged in the Eastern churches we focus less on revering it
in the tabernacle and more on actually recieving it. <<<

Actually, Eucharistic Adoration is considerably older than the Reformation. It arose in the later Middle Ages, about the time when priests in the Latin Church began to say Mass silently, and took over all the responses that used to belong to the people. The Mass was in Latin anyhow, so the people wouldn't have understood what he was saying. Just as in the Divine Liturgy, there is a point in the Latin Mass where the priest holds up the consecrated host before breaking it. As this was one of the few visiual cues that the people had regarding what was going on, it became the focal point of the Mass for them. It was a short step from there to leaving the consecrated Host out in a monstrance for all to see. Prayers were written around the adoration of the Host, and a whole new devotion arose around it. This included the Feast of Corpus Christi, and the processional liturgy devised for it (Thomas Aquinas wrote some of the hymns). Over time, this Eucharistic Adoration reached excessive levels. It was very rare for people to receive communion more than three or four times a year, and Adoration gradually began to take center stage from the Eucharist itself.

Attempts to foster more frequent communion in the Latin Church were in part a response to this excessive devotion to the Sacrament. The reaction of the Roman Church since Vatican II, often placing the Tabernacle in a side chapel, however, seems to be just as excessive in the opposite direction.

For us as Byzantine Christians, showing our veneration for the Blessed Sacrament comes as an integral part of our liturgical worship. We know it is there, upon the Holy Table, in the Tabernacle, the Holy of Holies, and thus we bow before it, making the sign of the cross. Within the Divine Liturgy, adoration of the Sacrament comes from receiving it in a fully prepared manner; i.e., have we reconciled ourselves with the Church, and with each other; have we given thanks for the gift we are about to receive, are we open to the Sacrament transforming us so that we become more like that who is within the sacrament itself?

In the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, we also show our veneration for the Sacrament when it is removed from the Tabernacle and moved to the table of preparation, and later durng the Great Entrance. In contrast to the Divine Liturgy, here we really do kneel, even prostrate, in the presence of the Gifts, because we are approach God in a penitential attitude for Lent, and because the Gifts have already been transformed: God is truly present among us on the diskos.

Dear Elias:
I think that eveything would be alot better for everyone if you would stop focusing on how much 'worse' the Roman Catholic ways are than the Byzantine Catholic ways. Its like you are ridiculing them or something and thats not very Christian. Please think about that for a while.
Thank You
Elizabeth

Fr. Elias,

I noticed that you are from Pennsylvania. Are you by any chance Fr. Elias of St. John the Baptist?

Yours in the Theotokos,

Darrenn

Elizabeth,

I think you are a welcome addition to this list. I think you understand 'Byzantine Faith' is a myth. We have a Byzantine expression of the Catholic faith!

It is understandable that young people would like to join with other young people and talk about important matters in their life, spirituality and faith. This is hard in many of our parishes whose membership is declining and elderly.

I also think you have seen how those who jump around from various liturgical traditions fall into the habit of offering critics of different customs in a way that has no pastoral benefit. That is why it is best to persevere in one's own tradition, to avoid the fault of being focused on various human customs rather than the universal truths of the Catholic faith.

Keep your eye on the big picture and you will be all right! Enjoy Paris. A few blocks from the beautiful Catholic Cathedral of Notre Dame is the beautiful little Eastern Catholic chapel of St. Julian.

Kurt

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Kurt ]

I am a Byzantine-Ruthenian teen, and I have heard (though I'm not sure) that one of the reasons the Western Church started Adoration and Benediction was to combat the Protestant denial of the real Presence of Christ in the
Eucharist, and since the True Presence has never been challenged in the Eastern churches we focus less on revering it in the tabernacle and more on actually receiving it.

This is all true except the reaction was to something centuries before there were Protestants &#8212; back then some in the West like Berengarius were questioning the Real Presence. This never happened in the East, so there are no reactive practices here, even though we too believe He is literally there.

http://oldworldrus.com

I also think you have seen how those who jump around from various liturgical traditions fall into the habit of offering critic[ism]s of different customs in a way that has no pastoral benefit.

The phrase "jump around from various liturgical traditions' turns this otherwise OK post into a nasty remark. It implies anyone who is well acquainted with various Churches and rites is a dilletante. For the record, one can be grounded in a Church and rite, either the one you were received into or another one, and based on that rite as well as knowledge of others, constructively criticize a rite in practice.

You are right that there is Catholicity and there are various expressions of it (rites), but "Byzantine faith' isn't offensive because it points out that there are are differences &#8212; one faith, several "religions' might be one way of describing the particularity of Churches in the Catholic faith. (Plus lots of people still think "one Catholic faith' means "one Roman faith'.)

http://oldworldrus.com

Okay, I'll amend it to say it may have benefit when offered in the academy, but rarely, if ever, in the parish or pastoral setting.

Lastly, heavenis full of people who arrived there thinking the whole world worshipped as they did.

K. (who once thought every Catholic was Rutheniian)

Dear Elizabeth,

I am a Latin Catholic man well beyond my teen years. I am writing to thank you for your spirited support of the Liturgy of my Church. I am sorry that you found it necessary to have to
do that.

I think that you are right on target when you point out that all of the Liturgies of God's Churches are beautiful and do what they are meant to do. They are different, but none is greater or lesser. You have the gift of discernment to be able to see beyond the personal preferences of people to see what is true and important. I am glad that you are so gifted!

I hope that you will be the leader in the Byzantine Church that you seem capable of being. I pray that the youth of the Byzantine Church come to realize what a treasure they have and what a treasure they are to that Church. You are a gift to all of God's Churches!

Many Years!

Steve

JOY!