is it moral?


sam

Dear Sam,

IMHO, if you are making a backup for something you purchased, then yes, it is your right and moral to copy it.

If you want to burn a disc that a friend owns, then that would be like stealing, unless for instance, you have a computer game that you both went halfs on to save money, where the disc has a cd key that is needed for online use, and can only be used once at a time, then that should be okay.

I like lots of music, but many times, only one or two songs on an album. Buying the whole album in the past was a waste of money, but I did it. Now, I can purchase the single song, and create custom cds of all the songs I like, for a small price.

Microsoft has on it EULA, (End User License Agreement) that you can install its programs, such as Office, on two separate computers, provided you only use the program on one of the computers at a time. I.E. Office 2003 installed on your and my computer, same serial number. When you use it, I should not use it, but when you close the office application, I can then use it. If we both have the application open at the same time, then we are violating their agreement.

Now is that a sin, or a disregard of a business agreement? We have discussed DVD and VHS copying at our parish, and the majority feel copying something you own or went halfs on is okay, but copying something you did not purchase is immoral.

Then, what about the person that pays for all his/her software, for the last 7-9 years, and is tired of spending all that money for software that is now archaic on the current PC processors. He has the opportunity to get a fully licensed copy of the current version for free and burns it and uses it. Is that immoral? He spent literally thousands of dollars to that company and their previous products no longer function....

I would really like to hear from a man of the cloth on this for guidance.

In Christ,

Michael

thanks. I would also like to here from a Holy Priest about this. I don't want to go to hell over stolen music. It seems i have a lot of music i have to delete. Is it wrong for someone to upload music from a cd from a family member onto their computer?


sam

OK Sam,

I was trying hard not to answer this post, but it seems my brother clergy are just as reluctant. You really need a lawyer more than a priest to answer this.

My spin (no pun intended) is that if you own the CD, to upload it to your computer or to copy it to a MP3 player is legitimate. Your regular media software will allow it. The problem with making copies upon copies is a few fold. First, you do not own the CD (or whatever source). The artist and company derive their earning from the sale of the music. For some it is not a problem, but for some it is taking the bread off their table. The next problem is that you had to lie. Your media player has asked for the original version and that you had ceritfied that it is such. The last, by our desire to have it may bring about not only spiritual disease of covetenous, but the disease of the computer virus, from making copies from another's computer.

So you see, we have the spiritual diseases of covetenous, lying, and theft asssociated with this practice. Now if you want a moral desicion, I leave it for you to decide.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I will let you all have a chuckle at my expense.

Just when I thought that I was pretty 'cool', I realize how not 'cool' I really am....I thought that the poster was inquiring about LITERALLY burning his cd's--as in throwing them in the fire!!!! :rolleyes: LOL! :p

HOW stupid is that!!!!

Alice

Alice,

After hearing some of the "music", that might not be a bad idea.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

LOL!

Alice

Nah - they don't burn - sadly

But they do make nice bird scarers and can also be used as coasters

Father Anthony has raised all the points. I don't understand about burning CD's, though I would like to.

I remember when I was in studies, there were questions about photocopying books (I guess it is the same principle involved, eg. intellectual property).

Libraries would only allow you to copy up to "a chapter" of a book, or up to "one tenth" of the book. If you wanted the whole book, then one should buy a copy.

However, when books were permanently out of print (and you made a reasonable effort to obtain one), or it was over 50 years old (I presume when the text became public property), then there was more liberty.

Those principles seemed reasonable, and I wonder if they transfer to CDs?

the unworthy,
Elias

I think it would be good to just burn them for replacements. My Switchfoot: Nothing Is Sound CD is the perfect example of this. There's plenty of scratches on it now, but none of them fatal to the disc. I need to burn a copy (to make sure I don't lose the music) so I should. As long as I don't have it over to someone else to burn it should be fine..

my question is: Is it stealing to take a cd that my father bought or my brother bought, and burn it, or put it on my ipod?

The RIAA (you know, THOSE GUYS, the ones who'll getcha for downloading from Napster) say, yes, it's against the law to share music. See Fair Use Laws here: RIAA Fair Use . But then they are downright rabid about this.

Whether it is a sin or not would be an excellent topic to discuss with your spiritual director or confessor and not on a public forum.

C'mon, it's called iTunes: 99 cents a song, you own it, the RIAA can't touch ya, and your soul isn't in danger. Unless you are downloading certain, well, questionable kinds of music, and we won't go there today.

On this same topic, have you heard about Magnatunes? Magnatunes
In particular, the Eastern Voices page of Magnatunes: Eastern Voices

You can listen to 439 complete albums for free. I don't know what happens on album #440. And if you do want to buy an album, you get to choose how much you want to pay for it. I particularly enjoyed the Kyiv Chamber Choir and the Ensemble Sreteniye.

I would guess that gifts that your family have given you is allowed.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Thanks Father.

Dominus Vobiscum,

Sam

Sam asks: "Is it stealing to take a cd that my father bought or my brother bought, and burn it, or put it on my ipod?"

To which Father Anthony replies: "I would guess that gifts that your family have given you would be allowed."

With all due respect, that was not the question. Sam said nothing about a gift. Sam's father or brother is the owner of the CD, as Sam describes in the scenario he takes the CD to make a copy or put it on the ipod.

The Copyright Act of 1976 and as amemded in 2002 of the US Code states:
The scenario Sam describes is an infringement upon the exclusive rights of the owner of the copyright to reproduce the copyrighted material, unless the owner allows free copying.

Father Elias is correct about library policy of photocopying. The US Code places a limitation on the "exclusive rights" under a test entitled "fair use":

Father Anthony had it right the first time, "You really need a lawyer more than a priest to answer this."

My advice: buy the CD or pay the fee to download the music. It's much cheaper than talking to the lawyer. This music is someone's labor, and that person is certainly entitled to receive compensation for that work.

From the Unpublished Sayings of the Desert Fathers: "Better not to burn a CD, than to burn in the lake of fire."

Dear Father Deacon,

Thank you for that clarification and the saying of the desert fathers.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

None of you live in China I take it. I happen to collect out of print soul, disco, house, funk music from the past 35 years. One thing I can say is that if the money doesnt go to the artist or the artists family you don't need to concern yourself with copying it, burn all the copies you want because otherwise no one else will EVER hear the music. I spend half my life looking for rare music in real life, online, hidden in friends homes, anywhere it exists, and when i finally find it it makes my day and i want to share it with the world. I own many records that were limited to 500 or 1000 pressings, many of them now destroyed or in collectors attics. Major record companies are rarely more than legalized mafia they will not keep in print many artists albums simply because they do not "think" they will sell enough copies (or just want to manipulate the market for new trends). Even at the artists request they will not print them if the artist does not have enough clout. I knew a man named Charles Wright from the watts 103rd street rhythm band in Los Angeles a pioneering funk band from 1967-70 and he couldnt even sell me a copy of his own out of print cd-re-release made by warner bros. because he only had one copy of it left in stock and it was illegal to made a CD-R..(Thank God many long-forgotten artists ignore unjust laws and will make copies of work THEY own, but maybe not legally cause they sold the rights for a cadillac) Independent small time labels are another story, they deserve our financial support..but they do also need promotion with exposing their artists..The laws can not catch up with the changes of the mediums. Blessed Marshall Mcluhan pray for us. I can't answer all the questions, but be careful in your scrutinization to not miss the spirit of the law. The word of the law is not worth much except for court rooms. Lastly remember in most countries the law is that after 50 years all music is public domain and it is completely free to distribute and resell as you like. In the USA though it takes 80 years.

80 years?

So even those of us who are obsessed with Ella Fitzgerald (and I'm certainly not one of those people; I'm speaking theoretically) can't even listen for free!

Well, we can, but we are not allowed to.

Logos Teen

Okay if I'm going to spend one whole minute in Purgatory for every cd I have burned, than I don't think I'll ever reach heaven at all... :>

If you get the music from public domain and burn it, it's OK. I think one can usually differentiate when they are stealing and when they're not. Pride often gets in the way of that though.

Here is some free Eastern Rite chants:

http://www.grkat.nfo.sk/eng/music.html

Russian Ortho:

http://en.liturgy.ru/zvuk/zvuk.php