In fact, it was my understanding that the universal Catholic Catechism was meant to serve as a resource for local and particular Churches to prepare their own catechisms, and to serve as a help to their own teaching in particular contexts. A great challenge to us all!

Elias

But, may I refer all to Mike's original question? Does the tradition of the Eastern Churches have anything to offer the debate in America about Capital Punishment?

Elias

I'm not familiar with any statement from our bishops on capital punishment or any statements from our tradition on social issues for that matter. It would be nice to know if they do exist. Please advise.

Joe

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: Monk Elias ]

Dear Cantor Joe,

Well, the only "social issue" one of our previous bishops was interested in was the annual eparchial fund-raising banquet .

I think the Venerable Father Elias was speaking more about the way the Eastern Patristic tradition would view capital punishment based on the canons of the Church.

And we don't need a bishop to interpret that for us.

I would go with St Basil the Great's thought on this one.

He was so much against the taking of life that he installed a canon that said if war broke out with a country in which a Christian lived, the Christian should be banned from Holy Communion for three years, since if he lived as a true Christian should, the war would not have broken out.

This is, of course, a radical if somewhat naive stance when viewed from today's prism of reality.

But at least we have an ideal set of values from which to work from.

Also, there is St Nicholas and his miracle of saving three men condemned to die . . .

Again, we don't need bishops to tell us about this.

This reminds me of the husband who was sitting in his easy chair reading something with a hand-crafted paper mitre on his head.

His wife was heard to say, "Harry, why don't you just quit that religious Book-of-the-Month club!"

(Is that as good as my "super-calloused" line? )

Alex

Alex,

Well, the CCC was not written by the Fathers from the Patristic era, and the annual eparchial fund drive does not count as Patrology either.

But I was interested in recent documents from our own bishops on social issues affecting us today. Where can I find them? What are these canons you speak of? I like to know if St. Basil et al. have been brought out to help us answer today's social issues and questions from an Eastern Christian perspective. This is a fascinating topic for it will show me how our church teachers can help us in this area. The issue of capital punishment comes up a lot in my discussions with Byzantine Catholics and other Christians.

I liked the super-callous joke better.


Cantor Joe

Dear Cantor and Mentor Joe,

Ummh . . . the St Basil I was referring to is no longer with us . . . And Patrology wasn't the main topic at the banquet either!

It sounds, though, as if you've already drawn your own conclusions in asking the questions you've asked.

St Basil, if he were here, might ask you, Joe, to say what you really want to say, but haven't yet.

Am I right?

Alex

Alex,

Protodeacon David mentions the CCC as the "current" statement on capital punishment for the Eastern Catholic Churches. Since there was debate on the CCC as being fully representative for Eastern Catholicism, I was searching for statements on capital punishment by our current bishops.

I can't draw any conclusions or say anything, Alex, if I don't know where to look for current statements nor have any understanding what these statements might say. Is the annual stewardship drive the only social issue mentioned? I hope this isn't the case. I'm only interested in "current" teachings on capital punishment and/or other social issues from the Eastern Catholic Church. Protodeacon David hasn't responded to any of my earlier questions on this issue. Maybe you can help?


Joe

Dear Joe,

Only insofar as you know better than I that if there aren't any such statements around then there aren't.

One could take that two ways, I suppose. One could say, as I think you are implying, that our bishops are really irrelevant on such matters and expect us to follow everything the Latin Bishops do and say on social issues and are therefore slack in their responsibility as Byzantine Catholic leaders.

Or one could also say, as I like to think, that the outline of Catholic teaching on social and other issues as given in the name of the entire Catholic Church, East and West, is something that we can take and fly with per se, casting it into whatever spiritual prisms we wish.

If the Church teaches that capital punishment is immoral, then we accept that. We can find Patristic and Scriptural backing to defend that.

But what's the big deal, forgive me, about whether a particular Byzantine Bishop or group of same have repeated the same teaching?

Again, if I've misrepresented what you are intending to say, but haven't yet, forgive me.

Otherwise, I still don't know where you're going with this.

Alex

Alex,

OK. Just wondering.

More than a few times I've seen my eparch's name/signature in the list of bishops who have issued a document on various "social issues" as "The Catholic Bishops of New Jersey," I believe.

The fact that my Byzantine Catholic eparch has signed his name to this document indicates to me that its contents constitute a statement of Byzantine Catholic teaching in the matter.

Shouldn't it?

Dear RichC,

Actually, I just came across something that our Bishop signed, as you said, and it would indeed appear that he is subscribing to a view and giving it his own seal of approval.

I didn't see where Joe Thur was going with his questions before, but now I think I do, and Joe was absolutely correct in raising the matters he did.

From my angle, there is a sense in which my Church seems to be aloof from the very pressing social issues of today, expecting RC teaching to do its work for it.

We tend to be somewhat insular and relate really only to what is going on in Ukraine, while pretending to ignore what is going on all around us here in North America.

And that can't be good!

We promote the Chornobyl disaster when it is AIDS that is by far the more dangerous problem for Eastern Europe and elsewhere. We just refuse to talk about it, thinking it will go away by itself, or else consider this to be something the "English" have to worry about, never we.

This is a real eye-opener.

And, yes, Joe is right, if I understand him correctly, that we cannot rely on what are really outdated teachings to formulate our response to current issues as contemporary Christians.

Can we be content to simply follow the teachings and affirmations of the Latin Church in this regard?

Is there nothing that our Particular Churches can say or do in witness to the Gospel of Christ on social issues?

Alex

I know the Catholic Bishops in the United States have issued a number of statements and refelctions on various social concerns. I cannot cite chapter and verse as to the exact participation in the conference of bishops our eastern bishops contributed on this issue or any other social concern.

But our bishops are members of the the national conference. It would seem right that when the Catholic Church speaks to a social concern, its statement or teaching be developed by the catholic bishops of that society. In this case, the United States.

Given all of that, I don't understand why one would make any other assumption than the application of universal teaching to American society is as proclaimed by the American bishops conference. This seems to employ they very counciliar practice our tradition had highlighted during the recent Council.

K.

Dear Kurt,

I knew you were going to respond, I just knew it!

Do you feel that the Eastern Church has something "Particular" to say about social issues from a Byzantine theological framework that could add anything to such statements?

Alex

Alex,

We may well. Were I a scholar, I might be able to cite some examples. I hope and pray our American bishops, in the reflection and discussion within the national episcopal conference, do offer any particular insights from a Byzantine theological framework.

I hope and pray they also offer any insights they have from the social experience and commmunity life of our people. And I hope they offer any personal insights, prayerful reflections, experiences, or scholarly understandings they have.

Isn't this the way we would expect our bishops to consider social matters?

K.