www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News "Europe becomes more and more a province of Islam...."

HOW THE WEST NO LONGER LOVES ITSELF

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Vatican Warns Catholics Against Marrying Muslims

By Shasta Darlington

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican (news - web sites) warned Catholic women on Friday to think hard before marrying a Muslim and urged Muslims to show more respect for human rights, gender equality and democracy.

Calling women "the least protected member of the Muslim family," it spoke of the "bitter experience" western Catholics had with Muslim husbands, especially if they married outside the Islamic world and later moved to his country of origin.

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It hoped Muslims would show "a growing awareness that fundamental liberties, the inviolable rights of the person, the equal dignity of man and woman, the democratic principle of government and the healthy lay character of the state are principles that cannot be surrendered."

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The document highlighted the contrasting approaches the Vatican has taken in recent years toward Islam, which has emerged as a strong rival for souls, especially in Africa.

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But Vatican officials and leading Catholic prelates have expressed increasingly critical views about the spread of Islam and the challenge this poses for Catholicism.

The Vatican's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said earlier this week the West "no longer loves itself" and so was unable to respond to the challenge of Islam, which was growing because it expressed "greater spiritual energy."

The entire article can be found here:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040514/ts_nm/pope_muslims_dc

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Hmmmmmm. We all getting a bit worried these days, eh?

The problem is not the Muslims who arrive, after all it's the religion and culture they've had for centuries in their countries.

The problem is the European Christians who have apostatized from Christianity. It's a known fact that in Europe, the vast majority of people are atheist or non-believing.

The Muslims at least have enough courage to reject our western fast-food culture and lifestyle, the evils of the modern world (abortion, euthanasia, etc), while European Christians have largely apostatized even from the traditional secular values.

Indeed its worrying, and not only in Europe, also in Latin America is happening. Muslims are becoming a big community in Mexico, specially in Chiapas and now in Mexico City. There's a web site www.islam.com.mx [islam.com.mx] that is from the Cultural Islamic Center of Mexico, which in fact inside has a Mosque. There is another web page, which I don't have the link right now of the Islamic Community in Mexico (Comunidad Islamica en Mexico), in such site in one of the first articles states that " The truth of Jesus is: 1. Jesus is not God, but a messenger from Allah; 2. Jesus is not the son of God, Allah has no sons, nor has been born from anyone; 3. Jesus was never crucified nor killed in any way whatsoever."

Islam is growing and getting stronger, while we are losing time and strength fighting against ourselves. The world is in a great apostasy and, God forbids this, one day we Christians will be only a remnant.

Sorry Im a bit pesimistic today.

Dear Mexican,

I AGREE!

Not them, us! Otherwise, it wouldn't matter that say, 10% of Europe was Muslim, if remaining 90% were devout Christians!

Gaudior, thinking we need to refocus

Martyrdom, Christian-style, not Islamo-suicidal, might be the seed-bed for evangelical growth. Freedom of religion has become freedom from religion. The value of anything is sometimes determined by its absence or illegal status. But for now we still have our sports and the new cathedrals of stadiums and ballparks.

Joe

I am hearing many things that I agree with. Islam could not take over if Christians, both Catholic and Orthodox, truly believed and practiced their faith. I also think rampant political correctness plays a part. I have heard so many times that Islam is a peaceful religion. Is there one Islamic country that has freedom of religion? Islam is peaceful when it has suppressed all other faiths. A Muslim majority in this country would mean that none of us would have any freedom to practice our faiths. Our leaders are also to blame. The Roman Church has spent the last 40 years navel gazing, and the Patriarchs seem more worried about their territories than the souls within them. We need God-centered bishops and holy people.

There are different varieties of Islam and they often fight amongst themselves without help from the West. Besides the Sunnis and the Shits, there are the Sauds and their garden variety as well as Kadaffi(sp?) of Libya. Some view the others as heretics if not worse.

Joe

Dear Joe,

I think it is the 'Shiites'!!!

(was that a spelling error or a Freudian slip!)

Fondly,
Alice

Oops!

Slava Isusu Christu!

Islam's power is that it only requires a simple profession of faith (Shahada) as the required entrance into the religion. There is no yearlong RCIA or ECF process for membership. It provides absolutes and security to many including the emerging generation of (to use Serge's word: "young fogeys") and neo-orthodox. It is unfortunate that the Islam that was the real genesis for the Renaissance (Circa: Bagdad) was destroyed by the Mongols; and even after their subsequent conversion to Islam never recovered the previous glory thereof. We are indebted to Islam for many things: for translating the Classics, et al; but that Islam is dead. The new Sunni or Orthodox Islam does not represent the later form of Islam.

It was interesting that after 9/11 there was a surge in conversions to Islam by the white middle class. It seems that instead of repulsing people from Islam 9/11 uncovered a need within the middle/upper classes for a religion of security and power: a religion that people die for. This subject belongs to the arena of psychoanalysis. For some people it is the darkness in religion that leads them to religion. Many who feel powerless seek a religion that is powerful. Those who have a lost identity can find it in religions such as Islam that tell you who you are, and how you are to behave not only gender-wise, but also in *every* department of life.

The black flag of Sunni Islam will rise over the West. Because Islam appeals to the power-based personality of the Westerner. Islam is a pragmatic religion and a simple one. It appeals to the subconscious Calvinist mindset of Americans by its de-clericalized state -- in other words that one does not need a mediator-priest to stand between one and God. Once the stigma of Islam is overcome: there will be mass conversions in this country. The same division that polarized Rome and Constantinople at the time of the Fall of the City of New Rome and subsequent fall of that city to Al-Islam will happen to us. As Christianity is divided Sunni Islam will sweep this land with such verocity that nothing will control it. While we bicker and moan about liturgical matters and who is "more" Orthodox: Islam smiles and beholds its victory. May Christ our True God who has arose from Death save us!

In the Pantokrator,

Robert

I usually just lurk around and read the comments. But this is an issue that demands response.

I am well aware of theological differences betweent the Orthodox and Catholic sides. And I know that there are many that rightly takes these issues seriously.

For years I have really tried to critically analyze most, if not all, of these differences. (at leas the really big ones.) When you get past the surface misunderstandings, the actual differences become so nuanced that it really just makes my head hurt. And I have a pretty darn strong acedemic background.

The differences between both sides are not nearly as great as most would make them seem. I think they really go well beyond what the average believer needs to be interested in. It's great debate for theologians, but really doesn't mean anything for our personal salvation and practice.

The real sin is our persistent separation. How long will we fight each other as the world around us is torn by Islam on one side and Secularization on the other?

If we loved Christ more than we loved our differences we would be far more successful.

As far as the "informal" intercommunion going on, I say good. Why shouldn't common sense start at the grass-roots level. The East does have a rather rich tradition laymen rising up and shaming their heirarchs into doing the right thing. Wouldn't hurt the West to experience this either.

Andy Makar