I've been studying the relations between Muslims and Christians for a while and wonder what you all thought about the future of such relations. Is missionary work in predominantly Muslim nations a helpful thing? Should more Christians go volunteer to help the Christian communities in Afghanistan and Iraq? What is your evaluation of the work of Bat Ye'or? See the link

http://www.dhimmitude.org/index.php

Dan Lauffer

Hi Dan,

Long time no hear. I think if you look at the history of the Muslim countries, many were once Christian. So I think it is a good idea. Take for instance Kosovo. It is consider holy by the Serbs. Prince Lazar died there for his country and Christianity. Prince Lazar now being in a place of peace ,light & joy does probably pray that it becomes a place of mass conversion to Orthodoxy. Since a large number of non- Christians live in what is considered a holy place, its the duty of that church to show them the beauty of His house.

Nicky's Baba

PS Holy smokes I read in the trib that their tearing down the Martinique and putting up a Walmart. What is the world coming to.

Wall-to-Wall Marts?

TL,

Good one.

Nicky's Baba

I have the opportunity to talk with Fr. Walter Waseem from Pakistan, he is a Roman Catholic priest. His grandfathers were converted to Christianity. Here is his website http://www.catholiccjpk.faithweb.com/

If you want to ask him some questions he is in there in the evenings or night, it is their day time.
http://www.churchbulletin.com is a very small consevative Catholic chat.

Anyway it is very dangerous in Pakistan. There are about 300 in his community and they all live in a given area. He doesn't wear his collar except at church for he would be killed. When they have church they are protected by the police. He said they have lost so many children, the Muslems will come by and shut their windows and doors and then start shooting at the inside of the church and they cannot escape.

He is trying to establish a school for their young women to teach them sewing. Can you imagine, he can buy sewing machines and set up and run the school for $1800 a year. The girls in the community work cleaning, they are more often than not, beaten and abused. They have no education and cannot marry because they have to have a dowery and their parents can't afford one.

Something that I take for granted, is his joy at finding a cyber community. He says it has helped him so much having other Catholic Christians to talk to and it gives him great hope.

Rose

NB and Rose,

Before the seventh century Christianity predominated from India through the middle East to Western North Africa. Through conquest and conversion most of these areas, excluding, Armenia became dominated by Muslim overlords. Constantinople itself held out for some time but it too became overrun.

The Sharia (Muslim law based upon the Qur'an) considers an area either under Islam or under war. Dhimmitude, a word coined by Bat Ye'or, is used to describe the situation of the so-called "protected people" who may retain their religion but must pay exhorbitant taxes. Dhimmis (Christians and Jews i.e., people of the book) are not immediately enslaved. But if they do not convert they are triple tax viz a viz their Muslim neighbors. Should they try to escape they are brought back and put into slavery. This can be seen most clearly in Sudan today.

Part of the reason some conversions were so easy is because of the Byzantine tendency to impose its will upon the various groups of the empire. They cared little for the welfare of these people. Many easily converted because they saw a better way. Those who did not or have not converted face terrible hardships.

So, is there anything in addition to prayers and money we can do to help? Would missionaries be helpful?

BTW Why don't we have missionaries in the BC Church?

Dan Lauffer

What goes around comes around.

Dan,

There are two types of missions: (1) cutting-edge establishments to bring the Gospel to new people, especially those who were not originally Christian and (2) ones that are set-up to 'cath-up' with those who moved away from the epi-centers of our population.

How the Russians brought Christianity to Alaska and how we brought our Christianity to the U.S. are two different stories. Both Christianities followed their core group of emmigrants; both foreign groups inter-married locals; one group of Christianity maintained their identity and traditions, the other group almost lost it.

The idea of mission is based on purpose. Was it 'incarnation' of Christianity or the 'absorption' (or Dhimmitude) of one Christian group to another? Incarnational missions will grow and expand Christianity. Maintenance missions are not the same, though there are possibilities for it going outside the box unless there are pressures to severaly limit the 'Welcome Mat.' A Church that is caught between a 'maintenance' model and an 'assisted dying' model will not know the meaning of our first understanding of mission (Class A missions).

We should also ask if we are allowed to missionize new people.

God bless!
Joe Thur

Joe,

"We should also ask if we are allowed to missionize new people."

I think you mean "will the Romans allow us to missionize new people?" If I'm correct I would think that the very idea is a sacrilege. How can any group stop another from bringing the Gospel to lost humanity? I think the notion points to a deep seated spiritual sickness.

I hope that the new large group of deacon candidates bodes well for a more assertive future. We shall see.

Dan Lauffer

Dan,

I think all the Christian faithful need to educate people about Jesus who he is as compared to Mohammed.In this country many people both fallen away believers and non-believers are becoming attracted to Islam. What also doesn't help in our country is the attacks on Christianity particularly Catholicism.Maybe ecumenism has gone too far in this country concerning the relationship between the two faiths.As far as missionary work goes I'm not sure if it would better to send back converts formerly Muslim to their respective home lands or missionaries from other countries. The personal safety issue is a big hurdle.

Nicky's Baba

Dan,

Well ...?

Has there been any mission established in this country where there were no cradle Greek Catholics? The answer should tell us what our understanding of mission is.

Is the U.S. a free canonical turf for Byzantine evengelization/mission? Do we have the same freedom to evangelize as we do to pick and confirm our own bishops? To evangelize we need evangelists to bring the Gospel to the peoples. But what if they happen to be married? Aren't there permission slips for our bishops to fill out in order to ordain married men to the presbyterate? Do Latin bishops ask permission from our bishops to ordain their own? When the human resource departments of our churches are operated by outsiders from the ground up, then what does that tell you about our right to missionize?

None dare call it Dhimmitude.

Personal case in point: I've worked in companies that were fully controlled by outsiders. Our general managers were picked from outside (ignoring competent people from the inside), our pricing schedules were mandated (never taking into consideration our experience to what would make it work), our policies were handpicked (we had more memos and committees and glossy photos of company leaders than we did getting orders), our sales territory was restricted to geographies where there weren't any leads (we were free to quote jobs, but not where customers had money). I saw a lot of memos generated, internal committees set up to respond to 'standardizations,' and no orders. General managers who stood up to our German parent were eventually fired before their term was up, and those who faithfully changed us to look and operate like Germans were given promotions (though they never got an order). Then one day we were finally allowed to operate and price our equipment the way we used to back years ago: American pricing for American equipment. We ended up being the lowest bidder for a repeat customer (who bought our competitor's equipment back when we were under the German micromanagers). We got the order. By then we were placed under our Canadian brethren. They took the order ($5 mil+) and then closed our office. Does this tell you what I think about organizational dhimmitude?

Joe

PS: Besides the Bat Ye'or book, have you read "The Emperors New Clothes"?