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#169936 11/27/04 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by JoeS:
I feel like I am a voice crying in the wilderness. I know, Im a guest and I should know that I am greatly outnumbered here which is understandable. But what a great feeling you get when the you are a lonely voice trying to get the other side of the argument out in plain language to read.

JoeS cool
Feel free to tell me if I am misinterpreting this. But it sounds like you are saying that Ukraine is a fragmented country, and the differing sides don't have all that much in common. It sounds like there are some real and very significant differences between the sides.

#169937 11/27/04 11:00 PM
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I must approve for I live in the good ole U.S.A.

'nough said,

JoeS

#169938 11/27/04 11:02 PM
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YES, you could say this. You can disagree but this I believe.

JoeS

//Feel free to tell me if I am misinterpreting this. But it sounds like you are saying that Ukraine is a fragmented country, and the differing sides don't have all that much in common. It sounds like there are some real and very significant differences between the sides.//

#169939 11/27/04 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by JoeS:
YES, you could say this. You can disagree but this I believe.

JoeS

//Feel free to tell me if I am misinterpreting this. But it sounds like you are saying that Ukraine is a fragmented country, and the differing sides don't have all that much in common. It sounds like there are some real and very significant differences between the sides.//
"You are misinterpreting this".

Ukrainians have never been more united in their history. Most news analysts in Ukraine are stating that this is "the true birth of the nation". Except for the Donbass region where people are either paid or harassed to attend Yanukovych rallies, his do not attract people.

Yuschenko rallies on the other hand are growing daily, not just in Kiev and in the West, but in ALL Eastern Regions.

The article you posted above is unique and just does not seem to reflect reality. Obviously someone has an agenda.

Russia's biggest concern is no longer the loss of the region, but that the 'orange revolution' will spill into Belarus and Russia proper.

All of Europe is going orange.

The Eiffel Tower has been illuminated orange in solidarity with the Ukrainian people.

The next two days will prove to be facinating. Hang on to you your seats.

I.F.

PS: The people in the Zakarpattia region of Ukraine (Carpatho-Ukraine / Rus) have shown true courage, organization skills, and faith in their people - (bravo les Ukrainiennes et Ukrainiens des Carpathes)

#169940 11/27/04 11:50 PM
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NO I totally disagree. The Ukraine is not as united as one would like to think. Otherwise what is all the miss-mass going on consist of? We have political, religious considerations to take into thought here.

joeS

#169941 11/28/04 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by JoeS:
YES, you could say this. You can disagree but this I believe.

JoeS

//Feel free to tell me if I am misinterpreting this. But it sounds like you are saying that Ukraine is a fragmented country, and the differing sides don't have all that much in common. It sounds like there are some real and very significant differences between the sides.//
Thanks for the information. I neither agree, nor disagree. Ukrainians are few and far between in my area, so all I know is what I read in the newspaper, and read on the Forum.

#169942 11/28/04 04:26 AM
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Russia's biggest concern is no longer the loss of the region, but that the 'orange revolution' will spill into
Belarus and Russia proper.

All of Europe is going orange.
Dear Jean,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Hawaii and Alaska decided to secede from the US, and the nations in Europe were to show their glee, would they be considered our friend. I think that we would perceive them as our enemy and rightfully so.

If Russia therefore considers us enemies, is she so wrong? And if she perceives us as enemies, and therefore a threat to her economic well being, does she not have a right to revive her nuclear programs?

Mind you, I am not saying this because I disagree with the rights of the Ukrainian people, but rather because so many groups in the West, are encouraging and imposing their desires in that part of the world. What they really want, is the break up and destruction of Russia as a power...and Russia knows it.

Remember, we have interests in the Middle East, and are certainly not allowing our interests to be ignored. Can we expect less from a sovereign nation.

So it is sad that these desires and involvments in Eastern Europe by certain groups, only proves that they want us to continue considering Russia as our enemy. By allowing that, we are making her one...and that is certainly against our interests.

The Arab press might be irresponsible in what it shows and writes, but we are certainly not falling far behind. As for the French, or rather I should say the 'Great France'....forget it!

Zenovia

#169943 11/28/04 06:25 PM
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Dear Zenovia,

Your thoughts about Alaska and Hawai'i wanting to secede (to the applause of Europe) are not parallel. Ukraine is an independant nation, and Russia had no business telling its people who to vote for, or what policies to vote ON. And, by sending their Special Forces into Ukraine, unasked, in Ukrainian Army uniforms, and continually interfering, through falsified video and propaganda, Russia has shown itself a bit too involved in what Ukraine should do. If Russia does not want to be labelled "ENEMY", Russia should not send troops to Ukraine, and interfere with its politics. For the entire world to cry out against this falsification is just. Ukraine does not want the USA to interfere in their politics, but needs the world to acknowledge the injustice done, and perpetrated against the will of the Ukrainian people.

Gaudior, who points out the facts

#169944 11/28/04 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by JoeS:
NO I totally disagree. The Ukraine is not as united as one would like to think. Otherwise what is all the miss-mass going on consist of? We have political, religious considerations to take into thought here.

joeS
Joe,

The "miss-mass" is the old school Soviets turned business people trying to hang on to a corrupt system which was inherited first from the Czarist Empire then the USSR.

The "miss-mass" is about young people wanting to break with the corruption they inherited from the former USSR.

The "miss-mass" is about people not wanting to be isolated from the West where many of them and their friends have been forced to emigrate due to the 'system' which does not permit them to advance in life.

The only "political consideration" is about wanting what you have here in the USA or as the New York Times puts it: "going back to the USSR".

The only "religious consideration" is about freedom to practice the faith of your choice, or worshiping in the Russian Orthodox Church which has deep ties to the MOB.

ORANGE POWER ! ORANGE POWER ! ORANGE POWER !

First we take Ukraine
Then Moldova
Then Belarus

I.F.

PS: A cout d'etat is their only hope. A high ranking official spilled the beans: Yanukovych was not expected to win more than 30% of the vote in spite of near complete control of the media and commerce which was being used to force people to vote for him.

#169945 11/28/04 06:37 PM
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Dear Zenovia,

Alaska and Hawaii are not independant states. Ukraine is a sovereign nation with a constitution. Ukraine is not a province of Russia in spite of what they taught you in ROC sunday school.

Russia is no longer a super power - and let us thank God for that. 20,000,000 Ukrainians killed this past century by their "elder brothers".

Let us pray to God that the Russian people will someday be freed from the tyranny known as Czarist Imperialism, Russian Communism / Internatinalism, and now Putinism.

First we take Ukraine

Then Moldova
Then Belarus
Then Russia proper

ORANGE POWER ! ORANGE POWER ! ORANGE POWER !

I.F.

#169946 11/28/04 06:41 PM
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Can we please tone down the political argument?

It is in God's hand and He will decide.

Anton

#169947 11/28/04 07:04 PM
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Lest anyone doubt it, if Hawai'i wants to secede, I'm all for it...the USA stole it anyway.

Gaudior, historically

#169948 11/28/04 07:28 PM
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//Our Lady's slave of love
JoeS - a quick question - do you approve of a country putting it's troops into another unasked - and once they arrive make them strip their uniforms off and dress them in the uniform of the 'host' country .//

It is interesting that there is no objections with the U.S. calling the shots for Ukraine. The U.S. has poured a lot of cash to the Yuschenko cause. I just hope you dont mind it once your favorite candidate takes office and has to follow the U.S. line or find himself at odds with Washington. It should be a very interesting especially when we look at developments down the road for Ukraine. I hope it works out but Ukraine should not be so indepted to the U.S. that it cannot sneeze without asking permission.

Good Luck, you will need it.

JoeS

#169949 11/28/04 07:32 PM
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Sounds very close to something I heard so many years ago. First the Rhineland, then Czekoslovakia,then Poland, then....

But I could be mistaken.

JoeS

//Dear Zenovia,

Alaska and Hawaii are not independant states. Ukraine is a sovereign nation with a constitution. Ukraine is not a province of Russia in spite of what they taught you in ROC sunday school.

Russia is no longer a super power - and let us thank God for that. 20,000,000 Ukrainians killed this past century by their "elder brothers".

Let us pray to God that the Russian people will someday be freed from the tyranny known as Czarist Imperialism, Russian Communism / Internatinalism, and now Putinism.

First we take Ukraine

Then Moldova
Then Belarus
Then Russia proper

ORANGE POWER ! ORANGE POWER ! ORANGE POWER !

I.F. //

#169950 11/28/04 09:35 PM
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JoeS, that meant FREEDOM, not annexation...which is what Russia is trying to do

Gaudior, who suggests you read some more on the subject...

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