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#169981 11/29/04 06:02 PM
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Dear Amado,

I think you are right!

But over the weekend, our papers carried stories about Ukrainian soldiers and cadets disobeying their own government and coming out to support the people in the streets in favour of Yuschenko - there was a picture of them waving orange streamers on the front page of one very liberal paper of ours here.

Even the guards by the buildings have made no move to stop the orange demonstrators from preventing Yanukovych's people entering the parliament.

One editorial in the National Post called Yanukovych a man with a criminal past who was rescued by the current president Leonid Kuchma - he calls Kuchma the head of the gangster overlords of the economy there who has only succeeded in making matters worse.

Putin of Russia is himself burning bridges both East and West with his bungling and his direct involvement with the current elections.

Alex

#169982 11/29/04 06:27 PM
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Dear Alex:

People who have experienced a face-to-face confrontation with fully-armed soldiers always shudder at the thought of the first shot being fired!

Soldiers are also human. Back in their mind, they know some family members are in the opposite (civilian) side. In our case, they did try their darndest to temper their emotions at critical moments.

As in the "People Power" revolutions in my country almost 20 years ago, Church hierarchy and clerics and professed religious joined hands with the laity, from all walks of life, to present a solid wall of humanity against the "all-mighty" armed forces.

After units after units of the Armies shifted allegiance to the "opposition," the soldiers at the forefront begun recapitulating and joined with the people demonstrating.

This is the danger I am hoping the Ukrainian situation will not meet: battle-ready soldiers incapable of "feeling" the pulse of the majority.
It is hard to stop the guns AFTER the first shot is fired. The confrontation might become a "civil war!"

We were lucky, to say the least.

But, again, the birth of a nation is almost always drenched in blood.

Amado

#169983 11/30/04 01:35 AM
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It seems Russia just cannot let go of its chauvinism and suspicion - if not outright distrust and hatred - of other nations.

Putin and his cabal are rotten. They backed Hussein in Iraq from the time he took over until the US found him hiding in a hole.

The evil inflicted upon the Ukranian people by Stalin and the Communists is well known to the Ukranians who post here. They know it better than I do.

The blurb from the Moscow rag accusing Poland of meddling in Ukraine would be hilarious if not for the circumstances.

I will pray for a peaceful resolution and for the freedom of the Ukranian people. It is well past time for Ukraine to claim its rightful place among the nations of the world.

As for Russia - the morons in the Kremlin need to wake up and smell the coffee. Their biggest problem is not who wins in Ukraine. Their biggest problem is Islamic terrorism.

#169984 11/30/04 02:56 AM
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JW:

Actually, I think the Putin government's biggest "problem" is that the Russian people will take a cue from their Ukrainian neighbors and toss out the corrupt government when the next round of elections come around.

Разом нас багато, і нас не подолати.

hal

#169985 11/30/04 05:38 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
You spell "Kyiv" properly and I'll stop wearing my "free Tibet" wrist-band! wink

I guess our Irishmen here would object to wearing orange . . .
Alex,

I'll have you know that it wasn't easy to find something orange, but then I thought of my old Home Depot apron (it was that or ask my daughter to mail home a lock of her hair biggrin ). A utility knife made quick work of carving a piece of cloth from the apron - it serves admirably as a lapel ribbon biggrin .

Many years,

Neil, who can't imagine that Edward would want anyone to abandon a "Free Tibet" symbol confused


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#169986 11/30/04 12:26 PM
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Dear Neil,

With apologies to the Administrator and to others here to whom I've promised to cease posting here (this time for good!).

The issue of Tibet is one that is between Edward and myself and goes back a long time - obviously before yours! wink

God bless,

Alex

#169987 11/30/04 02:58 PM
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I have access to a large cache of bright orange surveyor's tape, and I've been leaving my mark everywhere... biggrin Slava Ukraina!

Hal, you are absolutely right. There are many reform-minded Russians who can't stand the Putin party machine.

I still prefer Justinian... wink

#169988 11/30/04 03:31 PM
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There will more than likely be a protest this week at the White House while Dubya will (possibily) meet with Ukrainian Diplomats.

Will keep you updated.

And at Gap, they have orange scarfs for 15 bucks, fyi biggrin

#169989 11/30/04 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by Diak:
I have access to a large cache of bright orange surveyor's tape, and I've been leaving my mark everywhere... biggrin Slava Ukraina!

Hal, you are absolutely right. There are many reform-minded Russians who can't stand the Putin party machine.

I still prefer Justinian... wink
Orange is one of the official colors for the University of Tennessee football team. Most weekends, the entire city is awash in that color. The color is easy to get, but very few know anything about Ukraine except what they read in the newspaper. Thank goodness for the Forum and the information it provides.

#169990 11/30/04 03:41 PM
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#169991 11/30/04 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Edward Yong:
CIX!

I was at the London pro-Yushchenko rally yesterday. I neither speak nor understand Ukrainian, but I wore my orange streamer happily - it's the right thing to do.

Having said that, I'm still obstinately sticking to using 'Kiev' when speaking English - that's been the accepted word for centuries... I still also say 'Peking', so...
Does this and other posts mean that there are Ukrainians who consider themselves Russians, who speak Russian and not Ukrainian, and who spell that famous city K-I-E-V? And they are mostly Orthodox, not Catholic? WooHoo, this is rich. biggrin ROFL biggrin I never would have guessed.

#169992 11/30/04 04:23 PM
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Dear Charles,

As in Tennessee, the citizens of Ukraine can be of a variety of ethnic background.

One is "Ukrainian" by citizenship and then "Anything you want" by ethnicity.

According to observers writing for our papers up here, there are ethnic Russians in Ukraine who want to distance themselves from the "gangster capitalism" of Russia and the current Ukrainian satellite government of same.

We have Russians, Belarusyans, Lithuanians etc. taking part in our demonstrations up here as well.

The Georgian flag is also prominent in Kyiv.

It will take some time for the world to get used to "Kyiv" rather than the old Russian colonial "Kiev."

I'm sure you Americans will be the last to learn it down there wink .

Perhaps when your soldiers who will doubtless be stationed in Ukraine in future at several sites come home, they'll bring with them some corrective grammar smile .

Like the British soldiers in the Middle East who changed "Salaam" to "So Long."

I bet you didn't know that . . . wink

Alex

#169993 11/30/04 04:30 PM
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Dear UC,

Nationalism, nationalism, nationalism . . .

That's all we ever get from you Ukrainians!

Now you want to break away from Mother Russia, like the orange-coloured rebel ingrates that you all are to form a fake country of "the Ukraine."

What, you've never seen oranges before? If you like that colour, move to Florida!

Well, we're still going to use "Kiev" - how's that, you trident-worshipping heretics?

And what do you want from Kuchma and Yanukovych? So they've done a few shady dealings, haven't we all?

Sheeesh . . . gimme a break.

I'm reporting you to the Administrator!

Xela ( wink )

#169994 11/30/04 04:58 PM
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Dear Alex:

Yeah, go ahead and report these emergent Ukrainian ultra-nationalists!

I wonder from whom they have learnt their chutzpah! wink

Do you? biggrin

Amado

#169995 11/30/04 05:02 PM
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A quote from my mom's cousin in Drohobych (translated, of course):

In most places, someone who loves their country is a patriot -- except in Ukraine, where anyone who loves his country is automatically a nationalist.

Makes you wonder.

Разом нас багато, і нас не подолати!

hal

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