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#170116 12/23/04 02:51 AM
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Alex,

CNN is now (9:47 pm EDT) airing the Ukrainian Presidential Debate. It's hard to make out what they are saying because of the English over dubbing. Is Yanukovych speaking po-Ukrainskij or
po-Rossisky??

Ung-Certez [pulling for Yushchenko wink ]

#170117 12/23/04 02:54 AM
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Cekaj,

Make that C-SPAN and not CNN.

Ung-Certez

#170118 12/23/04 07:50 AM
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Yushchenko was speaking Ukrainian; Yanukovich was speaking Russian. Various comments occur to me, but I shall resist the temptation, at least for now.

Incognitus

#170119 12/23/04 02:14 PM
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Dear Friends,

And on the UOC-MP site (www.orthodox.org.ua) there is an article about an award given by the Church to Yanukovych for assistance he gave to a monastery.

The man is a convicted felon, for one thing, and the UOC-MP is doing this during an election campaign, after much hullaballoo about it NOT getting involved in politics.

Alex

#170120 12/23/04 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Friends,

And on the UOC-MP site (www.orthodox.org.ua) there is an article about an award given by the Church to Yanukovych for assistance he gave to a monastery.

The man is a convicted felon, for one thing, and the UOC-MP is doing this during an election campaign, after much hullaballoo about it NOT getting involved in politics.

Alex
Ah now come on Alex - or maybe I am being the innocent here :p But if challenged the UOC-MP Hierarchs are going to say something along the lines of

"Not us guv, after all we had said no electioneering . We cannot be blamed for the actions of one person. Oh - and this is not electioneering either - we gave the man this award because of something he did - the fact that it is at this particular time is fortuitous "

Yeah - right - and we will believe them too - hahahahahahaha [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Cynical Anhelyna

#170121 12/23/04 05:08 PM
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There's something interesting going on that I have not noticed before.

On the BBC news last night, they showed Yanukovich supporters with signs that read "Orthodox Faith - Orthodox President." This follows shots of "religious processions" with icons, crosses, etc.

Has the MP convinced these people that Yuschenko will not be a good President because he belongs to the "un-cannonical" KP? Sheesh! :rolleyes:

The Western media want to paint this as a Catholic-Orthodox divide. We all know that's not entirely true and they seem to have stopped.

The real story appears to be that it is the MP against all the other "confessions" in Ukraine.

Yours,

hal

#170122 12/23/04 05:14 PM
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Dear Hal and Anhelyna,

So I guess it's O.K. to have a presidential candidate who is a bandit and a gangster . . . so long as he is a (canonical) Orthodox Christian?

During the debate between Yuschenko and Yanukovych, Yuschenko turned to the gentleman on the subject of religion and told him that since he says he is a believer, then he should know what the Decalogue states about stealing.

And yet, Yuschenko continued, it is known that you took more than $350 million from the people etc.

The UOC-MP and ROC should really be careful which candidate they support here.

You know what they say about associating with bandits . . .

Sorry, Hal, I didn't mean to steal your thunder here . . . wink

There was an article up here by a fellow trying to write about the history of Eastern Catholics since the Union of Brest.

He seems to think that Ukrainian Catholics began with the Council of Florence, for starters . . .

The article really goes down hill from there.

Western journalists like to make simplistic divides, such as the Catholic-Orthodox divide they impose on the presidential campaign north of the Black Sea.

It would be great to have so many Ukie Catholics there, but there simply aren't!

Ah well, we'll see what happens after Sunday.

Alex

Alex

#170123 12/23/04 06:07 PM
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The MP seems to have forgotten that its own Metropolitan Vladimir (Sabodan) blessed Yushchenko (I posted the reference to the RISU article earlier in the thread). I don't recall he was sanctioned (although certainly private words may have been exchanged with Moscow).

Some UOC-MP clergy have supported Yushchenko, as I also referred to earlier. Some of these have been quite vocal in their support.

If the MP continues to pursue this line of public polemic, they will continue to lose credibility, clergy, and faithful. You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

We had Sunday Divine Liturgy two weeks ago with special intentions in the Litanies for Ukraine, and will have a Moleben for peace and justice in the elections on the 26th.

Разом нас багато!!!

#170124 12/23/04 06:32 PM
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Dear Alex, Diak, et al:

In short, the MP's behavior is so much like Putin's it's scary.

Yours,

hal

#170125 12/26/04 10:00 PM
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Not all the official polls are in.....but democracy is winning.
smile wink


Antrodox

"Phyletism is heritical only to those ethnics in the majority."
#170126 12/26/04 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Antrodox:
Not all the official polls are in.....but democracy is winning.
smile wink
I may be pessimistic - but a phrase about chickens being counted come to mind here

Anhelyna

#170127 12/27/04 01:43 AM
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Yuschenko has declared victory, looks like about 39% Yanokovych to 60% Yushchenko.

I'm sure the legal battles are not over, but the observers seem much more satisfied with this round, and the nearly double results for Yushchenko certainly give him the "mandate".

Разом нас багато!!!

#170128 12/27/04 08:33 AM
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Well, the chickens have hatched; all but 5 % of the votes are counted, and the Electoral Commission has certified that Yushchenko is the winner - so we can mix the champagne with the orange juice and celebrate!

I think that the inauguration is scheduled for 2 January - this coming Sunday.

The next battle is to get Ukraine into the European Union.

Incognitus

#170129 12/27/04 01:09 PM
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Prayers of gratitude for Ukraine's safe passsage through this perilous and meaningful moment in its history.


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#170130 12/28/04 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by LaFamiliaFelix:
First, she said that Ukraine gets electricity and other basic utilities from Russia, so friends there are necessary. Are either of these reasons facts?
There's a pretty good piece on energy relat...aine in today\'s Int\'l. Herald Tribune.

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