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#17480 - 07/02/05 12:07 PM Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Nigula Qian Zishi Offline
尼古拉前执事
Member

Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 361
Loc: Colorado, USA
APOSTOLIC NUNCIO IN RUSSIA CONDEMNS REBIRTH OF RUSSIAN EXARCHATE OF BYZANTINE RITE CATHOLICS
Portal-credo.ru, 30 June 2005

The Department of External Church Relations of the Moscow patriarchate received an official commentary from the representative of the Holy See in the Russian federation, Archbishop Antonio Mennini, relative to the restoration in August of last year in the village of Sargatskoe, Omsk province, of the exarchate of the Russian Catholic Church of the Byzantine
Rite. As the Communications Service of OVTsSMP reports, the nuncio's letter called the creation of this structure self-proclaimed and without any "juridical basis" underlying it on the part of the ecclesiastical administration of the Roman Catholic church.

The official representative of the Vatican reports that all persons who participated in the Sargatskoe council were sent official notification of the noncompliance of such an initiative with Catholic canons and, consequently, of its being ineffective.

Archbishop Mennini also gave notification of "certain measures of canonical procedures" that have been taken with respect to those who participated in the creation "of the self-proclaimed structure." (Actually the Russian exarchate, which was created at the beginning of the twentieth century, has never been abolished by the Vatican.) The nuncio noted especially that participation in these events "by persons who call themselves monks who
were received from Orthodoxy into the Catholic church by foreign bishops whose jurisdiction does not extent to Russia" was unauthorized. The reference in this case is to former clergy of RPTsMP who were subjected by the Moscow patriarchate to severe punishment, including unfrocking, for "various kinds of immoral conduct." (tr. by PDS, posted 30 June 2005)

http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0507a.html#01

In Christ,
Deacon Nikolai

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#17481 - 07/02/05 05:34 PM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Hesychios Offline
Orthodox Catholic Toddler
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1865
Loc: Yantai, Shandong, China
Well, it seems like this topic is of little to no interest around here.

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#17482 - 07/02/05 06:17 PM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
KO63AP Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 1101
Loc: Ѳулκαндρα
Quote:
Originally posted by Coalesco:
Well, it seems like this topic is of little to no interest around here.
Oh, there's interest, but what is there to say, other than 'actions speak louder than words'? mad It's disgusting, plain and simple.

Oυτις ημιν φιλει ου φροντιδα | Nemo Nos Diliget Non Curamus

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#17483 - 07/02/05 06:35 PM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
incognitus Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 3516
Loc: .
To go a bit further, if this report is true, it's not merely disgusting, it's ridiculous. The Exarchate has been carried all these decades in the Annuario Pontificio, and the recently reposed John Paul II beatified the two previous Exarchs only 4 years ago. Someone is being idiotic. A Church cannot simply be wished out of existence. Nor is it acceptable for Latin bishops in Russia - who themselves represent a foreign tradition - to make rude remarks about Greek-Catholic bishops coming to the aid of the Greek-Catholics in Russia (who represent the indigenous tradition).

Incognitus

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#17484 - 07/02/05 07:48 PM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
djs Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 2953
Loc: USA
There's a letter from a Russian Russian Catholic in response to this news item now posted at Stetson.
http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0507a.html#01

Quote:
Your Eminence!

Yesterday evening the Portal-credo.ru Internet site published news, reprinted from the Moscow patriarchate site. [See below] This news contained quotations from an official document supposedly received by the Department of External Church Relations of the Moscow patriarchate. It supposedly contained a condemnation of the rebirth of the Russian exarchate of the Byzantine-rite Russian Catholics, declared the uncanonical nature of the actions of participants in the council at Sargatskoe, reported official notifications sent to those participants, and hinted that certain "measures of canonical procedures" had been, or would be, taken with respect to them.

This news cannot evoke any other reaction but that this is a provocation. Because it is too hard to believe that this information is true.

Because it is hard to understand how a decision, which hundreds of faithful of the Catholic church have been nervously awaiting for a long time, could turn out to be conveyed to them through the Communications Service of OVTsSMP, which is known for its continuous, false anti-Catholic propaganda. If the information that the Moscow patriarchate site reports corresponds to the truth, then its first appearance should have been published in your name directly in the news media. That has not been done. Consequently, is this a falsification?

However, if this is a falsification, then it is extremely impudent, grimy, and dangerous for the state of minds of faithful believers of the Catholic church, both of the Byzantine and of the Latin rites. It contains not simply quotations of your words but also points to "official documents" which could have been sent to RPTsMP only with the knowledge and approval of the Vatican. This publication forces Russian Catholics to believe that the Holy See, disdaining the hopes and desperate calls of its own flock, is trying to achieve a dialogue and dubious agreements with its persecutors. Is this possible? As one who is true to the Catholic church and who does not doubt its sanctity and sincere concern for the needs of believers, I cannot answer any other way than "no, this is impossible."

It is impossible to believe that you could affirm that an exarchate of Russian Catholics does not exist, because it was not abolished, as official documents of the Holy See testified, and we all are its believers.

It is impossible to believe that you indicated the absence of "juridical bases" in the decisions of the council in Sargatstkoe. That this council had a sufficient quantity of juridical bases is known to every interested person in Russia, including the humblest of the laity, which I am. These bases were laid out in all official documents of the fathers of the council, with which you of course are acquainted. They were set forth in detail in the book by Paul Parfentiev, which all who wish can see and read at the URL http://icxc.narod.ru/links/rkcvo.htm. I doubt that this foundational work has escaped the attention of Your Eminence and that you, as a recognized church leader and scholar are unable to recognize the seriousness and weight of the canonical bases contained there.

It is impossible to believe that you could tell a lie in assuring representatives of RPTsMP that all of the participants of the council in Sargatskoe received "official notification about the noncompliance of such an initiative with Catholic canons and, consequently, of its being ineffective." As a person who is immediately and personally acquainted with a majority of the participants of the council, I can officially and under oath affirm that not a single one of the participants of the council received such letters.

It is impossible to believe that you could consider the activity of the Society of the Monks of St. Basil the Great, who have over the course of many years frequently demonstrated by their conduct only fealty to the Holy See and readiness to suffer, for the sake of that loyalty as well as for the sake of loyalty to their own people and Russia, all manner of evils and woes, as "unauthorized." Or that you could demean their honor and dignity by repeating the lies and fantasies engendered by their enemies.

It is impossible to believe that you really said and did all of the above enumerated things, which would, in essence, be a betrayal of the hopes and yearnings of a Catholic church that is one of the most vulnerable and persecuted, and most in need of the pastoral support of the Holy See, for the sake of temporary political interests.

It is impossible to believe that you would not understand that such a step is murder of all genuine ecumenism. In sacrificing honest people, its own believers, the Catholic church would risk forever driving from itself all people who trust in Christ and strive to be faithful to the Gospel--all those with whom she only can conduct real ecumenical dialogue. We would discredit ourselves and become traitors and betrayers of Christ in the eyes of our true Orthodox brethren, who would forever cease to trust us.

It is impossible to believe that there exist such political interests which would be served by way of betrayal of one's own faithful believers.

It is impossible to believe that you do not understand that this sacrifice to Moloch, the RPTsMP, will be in vain. It is impossible to believe that you do not know what this Moloch will demand of you, the Russian Catholic church of the Latin rite, as the next sacrifice.

I do not believe. And all my brothers and sisters of the Catholic church of the Byzantine and Latin rites in Russia agree with me.

For the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ, for the sake of the unity of the church, for the sake of all that is sacred remaining in human hearts, for the sake of Christian charity--refute this lie. And the sooner, the better, since every minute of this terrible uncertainty takes years of life away from those whose life is based on this.

With faith and hope
Natalia Geda

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#17485 - 07/02/05 09:56 PM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Marc Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/03
Posts: 210
Loc: N. America
Quote:
Originally posted by djs:
There's a letter from a Russian Russian Catholic in response to this news item now posted at Stetson.
http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0507a.html#01
Quote:
Your Eminence!

[snip]

This news cannot evoke any other reaction but that this is a provocation. Because it is too hard to believe that this information is true.

[snip]
I'm gonna need to see official statements confirming the original article's assertions coming from both the MP and from the Vatican. This is just too hard to believe.

I'm with Natalya. This stinks of aktivnyye meropriyatiya and provokatsiya . Which actually has very bad implications.
frown frown frown

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#17486 - 07/02/05 10:29 PM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Fr. Yuri Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Bellevue Ohio
I too need to see official verification from a Vatican source as to the truth of this! This is terrible. It cannot be true. frown frown
_________________________
Fr. Yuri, C.PP.S.

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#17487 - 07/03/05 01:35 AM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Mexican Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1667
Loc: Mexico, Iasi
It's not at all surprising as the Vatican bureocracy would do everything in order to protect their political "ecumenism".

No wonder why the Vatican happily welcomed the consecration of their main candidate for Shangai Archbishop by the Chinese Communist hierarchy while the true Roman Bishops are under arrest or dead.

The fruits of the infamous Ostpolitik.

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#17488 - 07/05/05 09:39 AM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 22291
Loc: Canada
Mexican is more than correct!

Ukrainian Catholics were the sacrificial lambs to the Vatican's ostpolitik before.

Now the privilege has been extended to Russian Catholics as well.

Alex

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#17489 - 07/05/05 09:52 AM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7168
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
I also agree with Mexican. Considering even the recent actions of Cardinal Kasper with respect to the UGCC, unfortunately anything is possible with the dark specter of Ostpolitik hanging on the horizon.

Certainly the exarchates of St. Petersburg and Harbin are still on the books. So canonically they would have to be suppressed "in nomine", i.e. Rome would have to officially state these titular exarchates were abolished.

She has not done so, and Blessed Leonid Feodorov was beatified by Pope John Paul II only in 2001 specifically for defending the Russian Catholic Exarchate to the death.

I also need to see some proof and will be doing some independent checking. Stetson has a history of translating any and all Russian news sources without checking validity of the source or revealing a polemical context.

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#17490 - 07/05/05 10:33 AM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
Orthodox Catholic Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 22291
Loc: Canada
Dear Diak,

The irony is that it is good that we EC's aren't totally submissive to Rome!

If we were, we'd start to hate ourselves! smile

Alex the Uniate

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#17491 - 07/07/05 10:33 AM Re: Holy See Condemns Byzantine Catholic Diocese in Russia as Non-Canonical
JOHNYJ Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 46
Loc: New Jersey
The Patriarchs of the Armenian,Melkite and Greek Catholic church.As the historical protectors of the Russian Rite should demand. That the Pope personaly stop these latinist Cardinals from doing their evil.

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