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March for Life Attendees? #181026 01/22/03 09:13 PM
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Peregrinus Offline OP
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Did any members of the forum attend the March for Life in Washington DC? If there are any, I would be interested (and hopefully edified) to hear about the march, whether there was a visible presence of Eastern Christians (Catholic or Orthodox)in the march.

I would also love to hear about the Compline service served by Bishop Andrew at the Byzantine Chapel in the National Basilica.

God bless,
John

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181027 01/23/03 05:17 AM
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Frank Offline
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I just got back from the March. Saint Ann (Ruthenian) in Harrisburg had about 25 people on the bus. There were also people from Christ the Savior (OCA- I think) which is across the street from Sant Ann.

In Washington we met another Byzantine Parish but I forgot where they were from. There were quite a few Orthodox Christian including Orthodox Christians for Life who always carry a big banner.

Metropolitan Herman and other Orthodox bishops were introduced from the stage. The only one I remember, though was Bishop Job.

I was just watching the rerun of March coverage on EWTN and was glad to see that they interviewed Metropolitan Herman and asked for his blessing at the end of the interview, which he gave. Metrpolitan Herman has been attending the March for as long as I've been going (10 years) and he always speaks from the stage and says the Orthodox Church is unambiguously pro-life.

Frank


"As for myself, I personally do not want to live any more with enmity." Father Zenon of Pskov, Iconographer
Re: March for Life Attendees? #181028 01/23/03 02:59 PM
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John,
Glory to Jesus Christ!
I was glad to hear of your interest in the Compline.
The Basilica of the National Shrine was filled. Stuffed would even be a better word. There were dozens and dozens of busses parked around the center, and in many cases it was difficult to move around. The great majority of people were the young, who were camping that night downstairs in sleeping bags. They were literally everywhere- in the open areas as well as in many of the side chapels. Despite the lateness of the hour, the energy level of the participants seemed to take hold of all of us and make us very appreciative to be in this communion of people.
The 8:00 PM Mass in the Great Upper Church was celebrated by Anthony Cardinal Bevilacqua who is the Pro-Life chair of the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. Concelebrating were approximately 7 Cardinals, 50 Bishops and 260 priests. Eastern bishops included Bishop Andrew Pataki of Passaic, Metropolitan Stephen Sulyk of Philadelphia, and a retired Ukrainian bishop (not sure of his name). There were some other Eastern bishops also. The crowd was so large that TV monitors were installed in the Crypt Church downstairs for the overflow crowd.
Around 10:30 the Rosary was held in the Crypt Church.
The altar was transformed Byzantine to the extent possible. Large icons of Christ Pantocrator and the Theotokos were placed in front of the altar. A Greek cross and candelabra were in place.
Shortly after 11 P.M. the Slava Men’s Chorus began with Hymns in Slavonic and English. The 4-part harmony reverberated magnificently in the sloping stone ceiling of the Crypt Church, and the tones drew even more people to the filled church.
The procession started. A lector carried the processional cross, followed by 2 deacons, priests of the eparchy and Bishop Andrew. Priests took seats placed on each side. Bishop Andrew stood at the ambo with the 2 deacons for the service.
Booklets were distributed and people were able to easily follow. The chorus with cantors led the chanting, and the Bishop gave the prayers. Bishop Andrew spoke to the people at the conclusion, and after the procession back to the sacristy, remained to greet people personally.
I think you had to reflect on a combination of events to gain the perspective of the event. This would include the lateness of the hour and the high energy level of all, the church filled with “visitors” (i.e., non-Byzantines), the significance of the event (March for Life), the participation of the people led by the chorus and cantors, the presence and prayers of the Bishop, and the true sense of communion that can be achieved by people coming together in prayer.
Deacon El

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181029 01/23/03 08:17 PM
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Peregrinus Offline OP
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Thank you Frank and Deacon El for sharing your experiences at the March for Life.

Although I did not attend, I felt spiritually close to the marchers on that day.

Deacon El, your description of the services and especially of the Compline served by His Grace, Bishop Andrew made me feel like I had actually been present. It must have been truly awesome and very edifying.

God bless,
John

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181030 01/23/03 08:33 PM
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Mikey Stilts Offline
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Father Deacon El,

It was actually Metropolitan STEFAN Soroka of the Urkainians, not Sulyk, who retired a few years ago. I attended the Divine Liturgy at the Ukranian Catholic NAtional Shrine of the Holy Family on Wednesday morning, concelebrated by him, Bishop Michael (the retired bishop you mentioned) and about 15 priests.

In Christ,
mikey.

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181031 01/24/03 01:25 AM
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Glenn Offline
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Frank wrote:
Quote
In Washington we met another Byzantine Parish but I forgot where they were from.
I think it may have been us. I remember meeting a group from a Byzantine parish from Harrisburg in front of the Supreme Court. If this was your group, then we're Ss. Cyril & Methodius from Cary, NC (actually we are regardless.... biggrin ). We attended with a group of about 30 (adults and children). It was great to see another Byzantine parish there.

Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

Glenn


Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner
Re: March for Life Attendees? #181032 01/24/03 02:57 AM
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I marched this year!

I want to thank Nellie Gray for her change of heart and for the many people (including some on this forum) who prayed that I would be allowed to march this year.

We marched unhindered, without threat of arrest or violence. It was wonderful to have the opportunity to witness for pro-life and I believe success is on the horizon.

My friend Cecilia Brown also spoke at the Silent No More event after the march, representing PLAGAL.

Axios

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181033 01/24/03 11:51 AM
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Peregrinus Offline OP
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Dear Axios,
I'm glad you were able to make it to the march. I know Nellie Gray is the organizer or coordinator or something like that of the march.

What or who is Plagal? Excuse my obvious ignorance.

God bless,
John

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181034 01/24/03 04:15 PM
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Dear Axios:

The "correctness" or "acceptability" of one's sexual orientation should never be a prerequisite to being pro-life.

Congratulations on the participation of your "Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians" in the "March for Life" last Wednesday.

More power to PLAGAL!

AmdG

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181035 01/24/03 05:11 PM
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John
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Quote
Originally posted by Amado Guerrero:
Dear Axios:

The "correctness" or "acceptability" of one's sexual orientation should never be a prerequisite to being pro-life.

Congratulations on the participation of your "Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians" in the "March for Life" last Wednesday.

More power to PLAGAL!

AmdG
AmdG,

I think a clarification is needed here. The Church clearly teaches that, while it is not wrong to be a homosexual, it always wrong to engage in homosexual sexual activity. Among other things, homosexual sexuality activity is anti-life because it can never be open to the creation of life. Groups like PLAGAL exist to push for the acceptance of the homosexual sexual lifestyle by our society and therefore must always be opposed by Christians. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are united in upholding the Gospel teaching about homosexual sexual activity despite Axios’ ongoing implications that the homosexual lifestyle is somehow acceptable to Orthodoxy.

Admin

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181036 01/24/03 05:25 PM
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Dear Administrator,

Please forgive my ignorance. I understand what you are saying.

But I don't ever remember Axios ever promoting the gay lifestyle on this forum.

Perhaps I've missed something (you don't have to answer that! smile ).

In addition, while the Christian tradition is against homosexual acts, I don't think we can know if homosexuals engaging in such acts are committing sin in the eyes of God. Perhaps they are, but only God can say as He alone sees people's hearts.

And if homosexuality is "anti-life" because it does not lead to the possibility of the creation of life i.e. conception, what about the millions of heterosexuals who use contraception and are quite formally against the possibility of conception.

Does this then make heterosexual sex "anti-life" as well?

Alex

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181037 01/24/03 06:14 PM
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Dear Admin:

I agree with you wholeheartedly that:

Quote
...The Church clearly teaches that, while it is not wrong to be a homosexual, it always wrong to engage in homosexual sexual activity. Among other things, homosexual sexuality activity is anti-life because it can never be open to the creation of life.


I think, participation in Wednesday's "March for Life" by Axios and by his organization, PLAGAL, was not a display of an abhorrent "homosexual sexual activity" nor a flaunting of homosexual "deviant" behavior.

Perhaps, it was just a re-statement of one of their organization's avowed purposes, i.e., being pro-life.

Pardon me if I fail to grasp that marching for life now implies homosexuality or an indication of a "homosexual lifestyle" which is proscribed by the Church.

Or worse, is it "anti-life?"

AmdG

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181038 01/24/03 06:19 PM
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John
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Alex, AmdG,

Even though Axios has not openly promoted the homosexual sexual lifestyle he has engaged in an ongoing attempt on the Forum to win acceptance for it. There was recently a very long thread in which he attempted to insinuate that certain Catholic bishops supported the enactment of laws prohibiting the discrimination by employers against those who lived the homosexual sexual lifestyle. If fact, all of the bishops he referenced supported only the unjust discrimination against people who happen to be homosexual and were not living the homosexual lifestyle. It was a purposeful presentation on his part suggesting that these bishops supported something that they clearly did not. We always need to keep in mind that there is an ongoing assault against traditional Christian morality by the homosexual activists. The use of the term “gay” instead of “homosexual” is purposeful as it dulls resistance to the agenda and suggests that people can actually be happy living a life that is contrary to the Gospel. Groups like PLAGAL purposefully attempt to convince the public that the homosexual lifestyle is just another choice and as morally acceptable as Christian marriage.

But I apologize for allowing Axios to take the thread off topic.

Admin

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181039 01/24/03 06:42 PM
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Dear Administrator,

Yes, I'm in a good mood today too! smile

I do not doubt that homosexual activists promote societal acceptance of homosexual behaviour et alia.

If the Catholic bishops mentioned tried to be against discrimination against homosexuals in society - that is what any Christian can and should be about doing.

If the Catholic bishops implied, and I don't know if they did, that they are ONLY in favour of stopping discrimination against "acceptable homosexuals" or homosexual celibates - then they must be living on another planet if they think they can differentiate between homosexuals in this way.

Judging from the way they have handled sex abuse among priests and their attitudes toward married priests - they seem to be on the moon already.

And EWTN's Raymond Arroyo regularly has guests that rip apart the U.S. Catholic bishops for their political stands - so I don't think I'm being mean, at least that is not my intention.

Also, Christians must be against discimination against ANYONE, whether or not we think they are in a state of sin or not. And if we defend the rights of all as humans - that is not condoning the moral views of any.

I still don't see how Axios can be said to be defending overtly homosexual behaviour.

I don't have the answers to this complex moral issue.

I do admire homosexuals who struggle with their sexuality AND with their relationship to God and Christ.

Axios has been neutral, I believe, on this matter or at least he has sincerely tried to be, notwithstanding his own views and issues.

That he chose to march in the Pro-Life demonstration means that he deliberately chose to again place himself in a vulnerable situation - but his commitment to the values of Pro-Life gave him the courage to do so.

I admire him for making such a moral choice.

The rest I leave to God and His Mercy.

And the last thing you need from someone like me is to be preached to on a Friday afternoon - for which I am sorry too, but I don't know how else to express what I truly feel.

Alex

Re: March for Life Attendees? #181040 01/24/03 06:57 PM
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Alex,

Thank you for your post. Yes, there are those like Axios who have twisted the Catholic Church’s condemnation of unjust discrimination against homosexuals to mean that they somehow support legislation to protect homosexual behavior.

I strongly disagree with your belief that he has been neutral on these issues since he clearly has pushed an agenda of acceptance of homosexual activity and not just people who happen to be homosexuals. I also disagree that he chose to put himself into a vulnerable situation as he could easily have marched with a parish or other organization that does not exist to thwart Christian morality.

It is certainly wrong to seek out people and condemn them. But it is also wrong to actively or passively give consent to any activity that is immoral. Groups like PLAGAL exist to promote acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle and not just the pro-life cause.

Admin

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