www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Passion of the Christ: The crow and the bad thief

For those of you who have seen the movie, The Passion of the Christ, there is the unforgettable scene involving the crow and the bad thief, Gesmas.

My question is: is this scene based on an Eastern or Western tradition regarding the bad thief? I am not aware of one in either tradition. I consulted the writings of Venerable Catherine Emmerich, and there is no mention of it in her writings.

Is there a tradition regarding the crow and Gesmas, or is this based on Mel Gibson's creative licensing?

Thank you.

Dear GC,

There is a medieval tradition that crows take the souls of the damned to perdition.

Alex

Good info, Alex. I think Mel used the medieval belief and mixed it with the known fact that birds regulary fed on crucified corpses. Of course, being corpses that meant that they were already dead whereas Gesmas was not physically dead yet but spiritually I suppose he was dead.

Kind of like the maggot-ridden donkey near the dead tree which Judas hung himself on. I think those were an artistic way of conveying the idea that his soul was dead and decayed.

Just my little ponderings. I'm sure others can come up with even better interpretations.

Some folks have frowned upon these extra details Mel put in the film but if they were to just dig in a little deeper and think about what he was trying to convey, perhaps they would come away enlightened.

I have seen "The Passion" 3 times and have discovered new things with each viewing. I love it. I don't think I'd recommend seeing it too many times in a short span of time but I do recommend seeing it at least twice to extract more from it.

Dear Reznut,

Yes, when I met Mel by chance last summer, he seemed (to me at least) to have been interested in the "Passion Play" genre.

As you know, that medieval genre was replete with all kinds of symbolism to convey Gospel meanings.

The Orthodox Cross of Calvary, the full rendition anyway, contains a plethora of symbolism that is a virtual education of what the Byzantine Church believes about the theology of the Passion itself.

I've also seen old traditional Roman Catholic depictions of the instruments of the Passion where sometimes a crow is depicted, along with a rooster, a snake, ladder, etc.

Mel Gibson brought together BOTH Scripture and Tradition in his movie, along with traditions more commonly associated with the West in depicting the Crucifixion of our Lord.

Actually, the Infancy Gospel of Christ, a deuterocanonical book that is orthodox but not in the Canon of the NT, in Chapter Eight, there is a story about the two thieves themselves.

Joseph and Mary were travelling with Christ, they came upon two thieves, Titus and Dumachus. Titus weighed in on Dumachus not to rob the Holy Family.

"When the Lady St Mary saw the kindness which this robber did show them, she said to him, "The Lord God will receive thee to His right hand and grant thee pardon of thy sins.

"Then the Lord Jesus answered and said to his mother, 'When thrity years are expired, O mother, the Jews will crucify me at Jerusalem. And these two thieves shall be with me at the same time upon the cross, Titus on my right hand and Dumachus on my left, and from that time Titus shall go before me into paradise."

This is the same Gospel that, in Chapter Eleven, has the story of how St Bartholomew was cured, as a young child, by being placed on Christ's bed clothes under the sycamore tree.

In the first chapter of the Gospel of John, Christ tells Nathaniel/Bartholomew that He "saw him under the sycamore tree" which, for Bartholomew meant that Christ was the miracle-working Child that cured him of a near-fatal disease - which is why he acclaimed Christ and became His disciple.

(Is that your graduation picture you have there?)

Alex

Consider the contrast, if you will, with the dove of consolation hovering over Christ with His one functional eye (the other have been beaten and swollen shut).

In IC XC
Samer

Hi folks,

I was just a little confused about how the theives on the crosses were placed.

Because in the movie, the Good Thief was at the left side of Christ and the Bad Thief was at the Right side of Christ. I was confused.

I thought the Good Thief was at the Right side of Christ and the Bad Thief was a the left side of Christ. Hence our bottom bar of the Byzantine Cross being tilted from top left to the bottom right...so that would mean the top left would indicate a Good Thief at the right side of Christ going to Heaven and the bottom left would indicate the bad thief going to hell.

Am I right or am I missing something???

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Yes, I noticed this too.

In IC XC
Samer

I am supposing that you are inquiring about the pic in my profile? I suppose you could say it's a graduation of sorts. It's actually a picture of me on June 8th, 2003 while in the parking lot of my church just before going in to be baptized into Christ in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church.