CnaBa Iucycy Xpucmy!

This year I am considering taking a second ‘trip of a lifetime’ for me (living in England over a decade ago was the first): to Kiev, very possibly during the week in late June the Pope will be there. I would like any travel advice on how best to do this (best and cheapest agencies, cheapest fares, cheapest and safest places to crash for the night, whether or not to drink the water, restaurants that are giardiasis and gastroenteritis-free, etc.).

Perceived advantages for me of seeing Kiev: it’s really a Russian city, no matter what the pols and maps say, so I can use and improve my acquaintance with Russian — I know far less Ukrainian — but I have the impression it may be safer, with less red tape and even less costly than going to Russia proper, about which émigrés have warned me, ‘Don’t trip alone’, and they weren’t talking about getting high on acid or ’shrooms either.

Spasibo bol’šoje/Serdečno djakuju.

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus’</a>

I've never travelled internationally save for Canada, but in Europe, often Youth Hostels are cheapest places to stay. Contact your local American Youth Hostels council to see if there are possibilities in Kiev. Best bet for cheap flights is often to deal with a travel agent. A good one should know how to find the cheapest fare on a reliable carrier, or with a reliable consolidator. May also be able to help with accommodations. In some countries there are opportunities to stay in homes - again, don't know if there is a program for this in Ukraine.

Meantime, if your passport has expired, get on it NOW, unless you want to pay a service to get it through faster (most travel agents can refer you to a service). Also, check with your travel agent or local health department about necessary immunizations soon. Some have to be given "x" weeks/months prior to travel in order to achieve optimum immune response by the time you go. Even if it's not "required," this paranoid ol' Public Health type would strongly suggest being up on your tetanus shots as well as Hepatitis A and B.

Sounds like a wonderful trip to contemplate!

Cheers,


Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Dear Rusnak,

...you also need a visa to visit Kiev. Check with the Ukrainian embassy...

It is not an easy task.

Elias

Thanks, Sharon, for the passport advice. I should get on that right away if I am to travel in June. Maybe a travel agency can find a hostel for me too. Fr Elias, I knew about the visa (sadly, I realize that going to Ukraine requires as much red tape as going to Russia) — I understand a travel agency can help me with that.

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus’</A>

Rusnak,

Oh yes, let me give you some advice for a real good time in Kiev. Stand on a street corner as mention to every passerby that "Kiev, it’s really a Russian city", particularly hefty men. It will be the experience of your life!!!

K.

Of course, Kurt, the real point of my comment is that Kiev is a Russian-speaking city — all my recent experience with Kievan visitors and immigrants proves it. Yet it is in Ukraine’s geographic center and not on the Russian border.

If I stood in, say, Simferopol or elsewhere in Crimea and asserted the area’s Russianness (the Soviets gave it to Ukraine from Russia in the 1950s), people would agree, as perhaps they would in the far northeast like in Kharkov.

100 years ago, Russian nationalism among far southwestern Ukrainians (like those whose descendants now are the 60% majority in the OCA) was not unknown. The Soviets seem to have destroyed this in Transcarpathia... but in the rest of Ukraine????

The three Russias are forever linked and belong together. (Solženitsyn) Boh l’ubit Trojicu.

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus’</a>

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
SLAVA NA VIKI BOHU!

Three of the most important things to remember are:

1. DO NOT TRADE MONEY ON THE STREET!

2. DO NOT TRADE MONEY ON THE STREET!

3. DO NOT TRADE MONEY ON THE STREET!

It's very illegal and can not only get you ripped off but quite possible detained and deported!

the ikonwriter
mark

First of all, greetings to my many Roman Catholic brothers and sisters whose heritage is of West Britian.




To elaborate for others on what you touch on. 130 years ago the sense of any national ID was very weak among the Greek Catholics of the Kingdom of Hungary. Different forces psuhed their agenda for political reasons. The civil authorities sought Maygerization or a low level of national spirit. The Communists (at that time anti-czarist, therefore antiRussian) brought Ukrainian nationalism across the Carpathian mountains. The Catholic married clergy favored a Rusyn or Russian ID. Subsequently, the Czar also financed a russification campaign. It was a three way standoff for a while, but eventually Hungarians lost ground, the Rusyns moved forward with emigre support from the USA and the Russians colapsed when the fall of the czar cut off their funding. The Slovaks threw themselves into the mix, so from 1919 - 1945 the question was are we Rusyn, Slovak or Ukrainian. Only among the Orthodox was their a residual consideration of Russian ID.

The after 1945, the Soviets promoted Ukrainianization in Transcarpathia while brutally supressing it everywhere else. This was to justify the annexation of most of Transcarpathia from Czechoslovakia.

Unrelated to any of these activities, in teh USA, what is now OCA was equally harsh with former Greek Catholic parishes, suppressing their distinct traditions and customs. This was the reason the Carpatho-Russian diocese was formed, because of the russification suffered under the Orthodox.

Many thanks for the advice, my ursine friend. I’d been warned about that one.

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus’</A>

This was the reason the Carpatho-Russian diocese was formed, because of the russification suffered under the Orthodox.


That could be, as I know the ex-Greek Catholic churches in the Russian metropolia were russified. Was this the program pursued by Archbishop Adam in the metropolia/OCA’s now-gone Carpatho-Russian diocese? Also, I thought Fr Lawrence Barriger wrote (in Good Victory) it was because Fr (later Bp) Orestes (Chornock) didn’t trust the Moscow Patriarchate, what with its Soviet subjugation, so he turned to Constantinople instead.

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus’</A>

Sehodn’a Kurt napisal zdes’:

The Catholic married clergy favored a Rusyn or Russian ID.


O&#0269;en’ chorošo! Cool! I’d read that too in Fr Cyril Korolevsky’s biography of Metropolitan Andrew (Sheptytsky).

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus’</A>

I think the claim that the Johnstown Diocese did not merge with the Metropolia because of anti-communism was a retroactive claim at best. The experiences of the Greek catholic parishes received into the Metropolia was pretty bad. Fr. Lawrence's accounting, while not inaccurate, walks a fine line between Greek Catholicism and Russophila.

K.

Rusnak

You can obtain a visa simply by getting a letter from an organization or private invitation from inside Ukraine.
With that letter it is only a matter of time and money.

I received a visa to re-enter Ukraine in London in just eight days. It cost me 60 dollars.

An Invitation from a hotel will cost you money in the range of Hundreds of dollars, so don't go that way, even if the embassy recommends it, you never know why they recomend things.

Try some connections through the Roman Catholic Church or the Ukrainian Catholic Church, there are alot of Diaspora in the UCC working in Ukraine. Try the internent too.

A cheap flight is one from LOT Polish Airlines. I believ I paid roughly $800 for to get to Ukraina. The trick is flying into Warsaw and catching a charter flight into Lviv. It is a day's ride on train to Kyiv (not Kiev, you might not see any sign for that city ) for about 13 dollars.
Many people fly into Kyiv but from what I remember hearing it is more expensive that way. Either way check with lot. There is also an add I saw in the Ukrainian Weekly with flights to Kyiv and Lviv for under 500.
check that out too.

Don't be suprised if Kyiv is not as Kiev as you thought it was. I was there 2 years ago last and although there is much Russian, Ukrainians are taking back what is rightfully theirs, and not Muscovy's.
Perhaps I will see you there?
Talk to you later about it.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Molyty

I found those air fares in the UKR weekly.

NYC to Kyiv 459 round trip
Fregata Travel
212-541-5707

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
SLAVA NA VIKI BOHU!

Rusank

you may also want to check British Air. You can get a good price on a flight to London and then onto Kiev. I know there's a flight for Kiev that leaves everyday from Gatewick.

There is also an UKRAINIAN AIRLINES flight that leaves JFK in NYC also. This is on a converted AEROFLOT plane... NOT RECOMMENEDED FROM PAST EXPERIENCE!!!!

Good luck and keep us posted!

the ikon writer
mark