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#200797 11/02/04 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Menkalinan:
Ah, but you see, no one wants to know what's wrong! There is a book out by a man named Corey Robin, called Fear. He states that the government is using the war on terror to allow our liberties to be curbed.

But get this---it isn't the government who is doing the curbing. Instead, it is Government working in cooperation with PRIVATE COMPANIES to curb our liberties with fear.

Companies owned privately can do things the gov. can't. He states examples where women were kept from using the bathroom, and finally had to use toilet papaer, kotex and maxi pads, and paper towels to soak up their urine, because they would be suspended or fired if they were to use the restroom at any other time than their Break time. Many of the women got infections due to this. And that's only one example. He has many more, such as one where the current administration ordered called the shipping of toys from Asia an issue of national security, and told dock workers, who were threatening to strike, that he would send in federal soldiers to crush the strike on behalf of the shipping companies. There is so much information, analyzed in such a new way, I can't wait to actually read the book, and not just watch his remarks on Book-TV.

Now, considering Bin Laden, I have only one solution.

Leave Israel.

It is the entire reason Bin Laden hates, or at least the only plausible reason, is our support of Israel. Arab sentiment on this is much stronger than Bush would have us believe. 75% of Al Qaeda leaders have been brought to justice.

Great. Now, just have to deal with the fact that Al Qaeda isn't a centrally defined group, but more like a confederation of radical Islamist cells in different countries. Recruitment, by all accounts, is up for such terrorist organizations.
They are training new leaders as we kill them.

What is wrong? It is to me, the fact that people define themselves as an 'American', or 'Patriot', or by any label. Everything one does effects someone else, and vice versa. We must not ask how it effects us, but how it effects everyone. The world is now smaller than it has ever been, yet it hasn't ever been this divided.

We must pray for God's will, not ours. I can't say for sure, but I don't think God would consider anyone better or more pertinent because of their country of origin or birth, or where one holds citizenship.
If you really believe the only reason Al Qaeda attacks us is because of Israel then I've got a great bridge to sell you. Is our support for Israel the reason Muslim armies swept through North Africa, South Asia, and southern Europe from 630 until the sixteenth century? Is our support for Israel the reason that some of these people chop the heads off of innocents? Is our support of Israel the reason a bunch of thugs attacked a school in Russia and butchered a bunch of children?

Dan L

#200798 11/02/04 11:21 PM
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Yes, but these things cannot be blamed solely on radical Islam. Radical Islam just like fundamentalist Christianity does not come to exist in a vacuum.

The Middle East is home to some of the worst, most brutal governments in the world. Many of these governments backed by the US, I might add. The economies are in dreadful shape.

#200799 11/03/04 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by Dan Lauffer:
If you really believe the only reason Al Qaeda attacks us is because of Israel then I've got a great bridge to sell you.
Dan,

I think you already offered me the bridge, an offer I accepted. So, you're going to have to come up with an alternative reward for Menkalinan.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#200800 11/03/04 05:32 PM
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Hi,

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What's wrong is radical Islam itself.
No, because the issue at hand is not that you hate them (if true, this is), but rather, the other way around:

They hate us, and it MUST be because we did something that at least they view as supremely wrong. What was it? Are we still doing it?

Radical Islam might be wrong. Not my problem, as I am not a radical muslim.

And it is not that we are not muslim, as I already pointed out, there are many other non-muslim countries in the world, and hate is not directed towards them as agressively as it is towards the United States.

No, it must be something else. What was it? Are we still doing it?

Things to ponder.

As long as we remain unwilling to accept our share of guilt, and there is still a muslim standing, we will not be at peace.

I'd rather not consider genocide, but then again, I did not win the election yesterday.

Shalom,
Memo.

#200801 11/03/04 07:30 PM
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I'm inclined to think that our forces in Iraq are being viewed by more and more people in the middle east as an army of occupation, not an army of liberation. If so, the implications are not good. As long as we can turn over power to a local authority, then exit, we should be able to eventually gain back some respect from the international community of nations. Besides, going it alone has become awfully expensive.

As for our support of Israel, there's no good answer for bin Laden. We have staunchly supported Israel since its creation, so bin Laden will probably continue with his cause. Start saving more money. We're all gonna need it.

#200802 11/03/04 08:16 PM
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memo,

We sent Hitler packing, but his influence cotinues in many South Asian countries. Stalin was sent packing but his influence continues. America was not wrong in either of these instances. America supports Israel. There is nothing wrong with that. It might be,as I've written before, that if we withdrew from Israel it might give the Mousad the opportunity it needs to rid the world of radical Islam. That might be a good idea.

America is only wrong in one area as I see it. We commit shirk. Americans worship many many things besides God. But even if we were able to rid ourselves of all shirk we would still be condemned as infidels and idolators by radical Islam. We worship God who came in the flesh and dwelt among among who is the Son of God. This is shirk to Islam. The Qur'an is clear "God has no son." So we would still be dar el harb to Islam.

Again, we can pretend that this is not so. We can pretend ourselves to death. But that won't change the fact that in their eyes Christians are to be subjugated. That they have done for 1400 years and that they will continue to do until all peoples are dar el Islam.

Dan L

#200803 11/04/04 02:49 AM
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Check out the new book "Imperial Hubris" by an anonymous member of the intelligence community; he makes the point that the Islamists don't hate us "because we are free" [the Bush doctrine] nor because they are crazy nor because they love death but because of our policies , which they perceive as anti-Islamic. He also makes the point that American policy has been hopelessly bungled in Afghanistan, in spite of numerous Americans with extensive experience in that country.
All in all, a very interesting and informative read.

#200804 11/04/04 07:19 PM
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Hi,

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Again, we can pretend that this is not so. We can pretend ourselves to death. But that won't change the fact that in their eyes Christians are to be subjugated.
We can also pretend that America is commiting absolutely no wrong against them, we can also pretend that to death. But that won't change the fact that in their eyes, Americans are agressive Anti-Islamists.

So, what's next? Perhaps America will just pretend they won this war, as they did with Vietnam? Declare victory and get out?

Shalom,
Memo.

#200805 11/04/04 08:00 PM
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Islam in the Netherlands: Another Political Murder

The radical Islamic view of "live and let live" is a contradiction in terms. I suggest the following read... from a European source no less. And please don't miss the unbelievable irony of the very last sentence. Gee, isn't this something those nasty American conservatives are being accused of also!?!

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3353677

#200806 11/04/04 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Memo Rodriguez:
Hi,

Quote

Again, we can pretend that this is not so. We can pretend ourselves to death. But that won't change the fact that in their eyes Christians are to be subjugated.
We can also pretend that America is commiting absolutely no wrong against them, we can also pretend that to death. But that won't change the fact that in their eyes, Americans are agressive Anti-Islamists.

So, what's next? Perhaps America will just pretend they won this war, as they did with Vietnam? Declare victory and get out?

Shalom,
Memo.
Of course Islam considers us their enemy. They consider us the enemy even if we never responded to anything they did to us. As far as they are concerned the entire world belongs to them. This is not prejudice. This is what is believed. We are dar el harb. As it is written we are people against whom Islam is at war. Islam is the one and only true religion. All others exist according to Shariah through the patience and mercy of Allah as demonstrated by the ocassions when Islam does not attack us. It is a figment of the imagination of those who care little for themselves that there can ever be peace between Islam and the rest of the world. There will always be radicals in Islam who take the Qur'an, Hadith, and Shariah quite literally.

Ask yourself this: What did the school children in Beslan do to the Islamicists to cause the attack upon them in the name of Allah. Believe what you will. Put your family in harms way if you wish. But men are supposed to protect their families not endanger them. I want nothing to do with Islamic rule in this country.

Dan L

#200807 11/04/04 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Dan Lauffer:

I want nothing to do with Islamic rule in this country.
...and Muslims don't want American Christians to rule in their countries.


Christian

#200808 11/04/04 09:35 PM
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#200809 11/04/04 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by OrthodoxScandinavian:

Quote
Originally posted by Dan Lauffer:
[b]I want nothing to do with Islamic rule in this country.
...and Muslims don't want American Christians to rule in their countries.

Christian [/b]
True, but they do want freedom and democracy. The people of Afganastan stayed in line to vote even thought there were bombs going off nearby and terrorists shooting at them. America and her coalition partners are doing the right thing. If these people really loved the totalitarian regimes they live under they would not be moving to America and the West as fast as they can escape.

#200810 11/05/04 03:31 AM
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Ahh, History! My best subject.

No, the idea that Islam was an expansionist religion was the driving force of the Islam nations in the early middle ages. And, I might add, they were quite a bit more tolerant than ANY christian nation at the time.

Also, these "terrorists"--I hate that word, they are todays equivalent of "rebels" in the united states, willing to fight and die for their cause. Alas, more is needed for a rebellion to succeed, as was our case as well with the french, and since no developed nation will back them, they have grown ever more desperate--are merely doing what they can.

They have no state to back them, they have no resources, no way of getting the world to notice this travesty of human rights in the middle east. They have no army to defend them. What else should they do?

Should they practice "civil disobedience" to a nation that doesn't even let them function as any class citizen, and so could ignore them all together? No one will listen.

Besides, America has no room for spreading democracy and freedom when it supressed a freely elected government in Nicaragua, and Chile, and put bloodthirsty despots in their places. And, I might add, that America is still providing sanctuary for Kissinger, wanted for war crimes.

We need to help the Middle East in their efforts for rebuilding, but in much the same way the French helped us. But again, the Muslims need a George Washington figure to unify them.

All that's really left to wonder is if he will arrive in time, or if he will arrive at all.


Torn betwixt body and soul; somewhere between heaven and earth; is where the penitent but chained sinner weeps. -Errai, "Our Friend Errai", Short story I have not finished.
#200811 11/05/04 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by moncobyz:
Islam in the Netherlands: Another Political Murder

The radical Islamic view of "live and let live" is a contradiction in terms. I suggest the following read... from a European source no less. http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3353677
Moncobyz,

It doesn't justify the murder, but let's put a bit of perspective on it

Quote
The victim was an outspoken and often offensive critic of Islam, who once called radical Islamist immigrants “a fifth column of goatf******”. His killer was a jallaba-clad Muslim immigrant and associate of a radical group that Dutch intelligence has been watching. Police arrested eight more Islamist suspects the next day. The justice minister said the murder stemmed from “radical Islamic beliefs”. Mr Van Gogh was killed a few months after the screening on television of his film “Submission”. The film, based on a screenplay by a Dutch parliamentarian, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, features a Muslim woman in a see-through burqa telling a story of abuse within her marriage; she has text from the Koran condoning family violence written on to her naked body.
Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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