My friends,

A thread on another forum site got me thinking about this…

The numbers published annually in the Vatican’s Annuario Pontificio reflect a year-by-year decline in the recorded number of Byzantine Catholics (at least in America). How are these numbers arrived at? Do they reflect canonical Byzantine Catholics or practicing Byzantine Catholics?

Here’s why I ask…

It’s been stated many times on this and other fora that the number of Byzantine Catholics in America who currently worship in the Latin tradition is staggering - possibly even to the point of exceeding the number of American Byzantine Catholics who still worship in the Byzantine tradition. Despite their current affiliation with Latin parishes, these people are still canonical Byzantines - yet I suspect that this fact is totally lost within the numbers; in fact, I suspect that they show up as weighing in on the Latin side, thereby falsely swaying the numbers to an even greater degree (each individual in this situation not only reduces the Byzantine “count” by one, but also increases the Latin “count” by one, thereby resulting in a net impact of two when comparing relative Church numbers!).

It is a fact that children born of a BC father, even if that BC father has for whatever reason joined a Latin parish, are still canonical Byzantines. Yet I suspect that if that child receives the Holy Mystery of Baptism within that Latin parish, he/she is automatically recorded as a Latin Catholic which, according to Canon Law, is incorrect. Multiply this same scenario by countless occurrences of this through numerous generations and it’s not hard to see that there are, more than likely, countless canonical Byzantines in America who not only do not show up in the numbers, but also probably do not even know that, canonically speaking, they are members of the Byzantine Catholic Church and not the Latin Catholic Church! It would seem to me that at some point this fact gets totally lost and they and their offsprings are, from that point on, assumed to be Latins (even though they are not!) and are accounted for as such in the Annuario Pontificio.

This all begs a few questions:

1. What do the numbers in the Annuario Pontificio truly represent? Are there Byzantine Catholics being recorded as Latin Catholics in the numbers (and vice versa, though I suspect to nowhere near the degree)? If this is the case, of what use are these inaccurate numbers in the first place?

2. What, if anything, should the Byzantine Catholic Church be doing in order to reclaim these souls (and their canonical Byzantine descendents)?

3. What should the Latin Church’s role in all this be? Do they bear a responsibility to investigate the true canonical Church affiliation of those who join their parishes prior to administering the Holy Mysteries of Initiation? Should they?

It’s easy to say that it should be up to the individual to know which Church he is canonically affiliated with, and worship accordingly. Fact is, it may only take a generation or two for these “lost Byzantine” families to completely forget their true Church affiliation. After time, many may have never known that they were (indeed, ARE!) Byzantine in the first place! Does the passage of time and the complete assimilation into a Latin liturgical lifestyle make it O.K. to ignore Canon Law in these instances and record them “officially” as Latin? And if they are, in fact, being recorded as Latins in the Annuario Pontificio numbers, hasn’t our Church already de facto made allowances in regard to Change of Canonical Enrollment that are contrary to Canon Law?

Thoughts, please…

Al (a pilgrim)

My first thought is that the statistics themselves are not overly reliable. There are lies, damn lies, statistics - and ecclesiastical statistics.

Incognitus

What is disturbing is the ease with which many Eastern Catholics have been accepted into the "Latin" Rite with no questions asked.

In our own parish I can think of several individuals who thought our one hour Liturgy was too long and preferred the Roman 30 minute "rush job", so joined a local Roman parish.

Frankly, I believe many Eastern Catholics have been "hijacked" with total disregard for Church Law.

Last year we were supprised upon receiving a phone call from someone who asked that my husband assist at a funeral. Well it turns out, a young policeman on bicycle patrol, was run over and lost his life. May his memory be eternal+

Here the family was Ruthenian Byzantine, from up north (where escapes me right now) and they wanted that he have the 'proper' prayers.

Deacon Stan and Fr. Frank did so, however, it was in a Roman Church. The reason was the aunts were coming down from up north and they did not want the family upset. There are so many families here who are not in one of the two Eastern Catholic Churches in town - Melkite or Marionite.

Those parishioners might want to attend an even more expedited mass – for they certainly exist. In 2002 I had the misfortune to witness a RC noon ‘mini-mass’ (my term) celebrated by Fr. Fred Lucci of the Newman Center in Danforth Chapel at Arizona State University. This ‘celebration’ lasted all of 8 minutes and 36 seconds (I kid you not – I timed it). I found it ironic that Fr. Fred, who is a Dominican – (the Order of Preachers) – had a ‘homily’ that day which lasted all of 25 seconds.


~Isaac

Isaac!

Simply put - what a sacrilege!!!

Now there's another parishioner who stated that she wasn't going to waste her time attending Liturgy on Ascension Thurday at our parish, she and her husband would go to the Roman church nearby and be out of there in 30 minutes.

Forgive her for she knows not what she says!

Pavloosh

Isaac,

Is this the Fr. Fred Lucci you mention?

(Photo deleted by moderator)

8 minute Mass.. what a shame!

Al,

I don't know how to get the mechanism to work that will reach the canonically BCs who have strayed to the RCs. I got a list late winter of persons who were registered but have not been in Church. I contacted them to attend a reunion banquet. Most of the people were homebound and could not attend. Others had moved leaving no forwarding info. Out of the people I called perhaps 25 none came.

I know there are other methods, perhaps the best is simply to contact all people with Eastern European surnames, but I haven't yet found the time to do all of this. I may try again but frankly most of my effort is going to be with new people. We need to start over again to evangelize people with the Gospel.

CDL

The photograph is a bit grainy, but yes, that appears to be Fr. Fred.

I should note as an addendum to my previous post that Fr. Fred's 'normal' noon Mass' typically lasted 12 & 1/2 minutes. Not sure what his particular hurry was on the 8 & 1/2 minute day. (I was tempted to ask him if the building was on fire, but by the time I had framed the question he had already departed the sacristy.)


~Isaac

This is not precisely a good idea. This is all hear-say and to add a mug shot to the kangaroo court is down right wrong!!

Eli

My original intent was to point out that there are indeed even shorter RC masses than the previously referenced Roman 30 minute "rush job" mass. If you ever happen to find yourself in Tempe, Arizona, I would invite you to visit ASU and attend one of Fr. Fred's noon weekday mass and see if your experience is similar to my own.

~Isaac

what does an eastern church catholic do when he/she moves to an area where there is no parish or nearby parish to belong to. in addition when there is probally a local Latin Rite church. is there anything one can do in this situation? i am sure many have experienced this in their lifetime of course but I am just curious. does one notify their current bishop? or do they have to turn to Latin Catholcism. thanks

If the only option left is a 40 minute liturgy, excommunicating one's own infants and singing vapid hymns in a huge crowd of disinterested strangers, it's time to get out.

+T+
Michael

The picture of Fr. Lucci was found from a simple Google search, I don't see the point in deleting it...