I would guess that the kids have been dropping away slowly over time and it is now when we look around we see only older people in the church we ask what happened here. Where are these peoples children and grand children. It is never too late to evangelise and creat a sense of community to either attract the kids back to to bring in new blood. Churches have to be family friendly and the clergy have to get out and visit people and not just their freinds.

ICXC
NIKA

Perhaps (and this is just based on what others have said) The Eastern Catholic priests need to stop saying "read this Orthodox book" or "fast like the Orthodox do". The implication of those statements is that A)The EC churches have nothing to say for themselves, and have to use Orthodox materials, and B)the Eastern Churches feel there is no difference between them, and their Orthodox parallels, so, (as several have said) why be EC? Why not be Orthodox?

Again, I am just repeating what people have written about why they left the Eastern Catholic Churches for Orthodoxy...

Nearly always was "We were given Orthodox material, and told to do as they do. We felt as if it is copying."

My advice: work on religious ed materials of your own.

Gaudior, who says, "then take them into the home!!!!"

Sounds like they have not passed on the reasons why when they were recomending these books etc. I am pleased to hear that these things are being recommended it makes a change from previous practice where Byzantine & eastern was not quiet good enough and everything Latin & western was superior. The Church has spoken on what direction the Byzantine Catholics are to go and why double up on the books etc when they are already out there. After all they use our service books publised in Rome.

ICXC
NIKA

Actually we do have quite a bit of catechetical materials, "God With Us" and "Light for Life", "Face of God by Archbishop Raya, and other stuff.

Most of the people I have met going over to Orthodoxy have never mentioned "copying" on catechetical materials, but other issues (primacy, etc.), and come to think of it neither have those Orthodox who became Greek Catholics.
FDD

I think we are getting a little side tracked here. Instead of sparring over who is using whose materials, the question instead should be how many parents are actually teaching the faith in the home?

There is a enormous amount of material out there by the web, and obtaining materials has never been so easy. I believe maybe that the current age's problem by assigning others to be responsible for teaching something as important as the faith is being left to those outside the home. It is always easy to place the burden of responsibility on the clergy or religious education teachers, but if the parents do not practice and live the faith, what incentive will the child have to follow the teachings of the church?

Remember, parents are the first and most important teachers a child will ever have. If they don't teach and live by example, our churches will continue to dwindle and become places for those aging out.

Just a thought.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

My theory on where all the children have gone, at least in the UGCC of the diaspora.

Most of the Ukrainian Catholics in the US came over after 1946. Those initial immigrants had children who came of age in the 1960's and 1970's. In search of identity, most got washed away in the social revoultions of those decades. They then married and had children, which haven't been exposed to church except for Baptism, 1st Communion, Easter, Christmas, and of course, Baba and Dido's funerals.

This is not all of course, just look at me. But I feel it is the majority.

Plus Ukrainians view young people as inferior and hold their opinions with no value whatsoever. This creates for parishes that reject their own kin which then results in empty pews. Plus, from my own experience, a lot of the priests have been quite destructive. Some of the Bishops too. I can give you so many examples it will make you sick to your stomach.

In fact, my parents no longer attend our UGCC parish in my hometown. The priest has chased a lot of good families out.

In regards to the old immigration, primarily those in the Rust Belt, well, I don't know. My guess is that over the years, many lost their ethnic identity so therefore saw no need to go to their grandparents church, and went to the RC church down the street.

I don't know..... this situation doesn't look good. In 20 years, I predict there will be only one or two (small) UGCC eparchies in America. Parishes mainly in the larger cities.

So here is a list, in no paticular order, that explains why the children have left.

1. Christ not the centeral figure in the family.
2. Bad priests.
3. Ukraine over God, not vice versa.
4. Bad bishops.
5. Immigrant children being raised in the social revolutions.
6. Youth are stupid therefore exclused and dismissed.
7. Dispersion into the 'burbs.
8. English not being available to needing families.
9. Energy that was devoted to youth went to Plast, SUM, Odum, etc. etc. and not into say, parish youth groups.
10. Bad bishops.
11. Bad priests.
12. Bad bishops.
13. Bad priests.


...you get the idea.

So what can we/you do? Pray.

Then pray harder.

Then pray for a new Pentecost in our Eastern Churches.

If we don't, then those buildings with those funny domes will be relics of a by-gone area, and will probably become some Korean Presbyterian Church.

-uc

BTW, why is a certain man selling a church that is on tourist maps and signs in a certain city that is a mere 4 or 5 blocks from a certain bulding that was significant on a certain day in July in 1776?

Oh that's right. $$$. Forget about evangelization. Forget about being a beacon of the Light of Life. That's for those Protestants.

There are two Eastern Catholic churches I have visited fairly often and one Greek Orthodox church where I have experienced Divine Liturgy and Matins twice. One of the EC churches is a mission and there are children present each week-the young/middle aged families are having multiple children and making the life of the church central to their lives. However, there are only a small number of teens and hardly any young, unattached adults. For at least a few more years, the young people are likely to look elsewhere for a spouse, because of sheer lack of choices. The Orthodox church is near a college campus and has quite a few young adults, attached and unattached, but hardly any children below college age. The other EC church has a mixture of ages, but mostly middle aged and older, at this time. Oh, and another EC church I attended one time in the last year was full of families with multiple children. It seems to me that these churches are keeping their young people and as more couples marry and more children are born the church will grow. I guess my point is, it will take time, but I believe that the Eastern Church may be truly poised for growth rather than decline, if these trends continue. Perhaps it is not as grim as some believe.
However, it is also important to remember that Christ Himself sent many out to reach those who were a part of the pagan culture-I don't think the imperative to make disciples of all nations has been rescinded. When we put our efforts into training up our own families in the faith, the bigger purpose is not only to bring our own children into the Kingdom but to be a light to others who do not have the gift of faith. I think we need to have that dual purpose in mind as we seek to build families and churches. The Church truly is the body of Christ, and each member has a God-given role to fulfill, in the home, in the church, and in the world.
Respectfully
Michele

As regards the UGCC the promotion of Nationalism took heaps of energy. It has been all Ukraine and folk dancing stuff. Poor preparation of priests to work in larger countries like the USA and Australia. Priest sat in the houses and only ministered to those who came to them. The older parishoners did not truly trust the younger generations and hung on to parish offices. Everything was in Ukrainian language and it excluded people from participation. When the next generation married people of other cultural backgrounds, these people were not made welcome of ministered too. Now that the Churches are full of elderly people the cry has gone up where are the kids. Well they grew up and have kids of their own now and some of them are even grand parents themselves. It is not beyond repair but the work load is now huge due to the years of neglect.

ICXC
NIKA

As clergy, obviously we need to do all we can before, during, and after that one hour Saturday evening and couple of hours on Sunday. Part of that responsibility needs to be placed on us as it is indeed ours. I've heard far too many clergy over the years throw up their hands and point towards the parents. It is truly a team effort.

But for this to work it needs daily reinforcement, the daily, hourly implementation that indeed happens in the domestic church. Without that reinforcement, it becomes a dualistic world - the couple of weekend hours and the rest of the week. The kids have to love it, live it, breathe it, otherwise they will not come.
FDD

Father Deacon,

I agree with you that it is a team effort. What I elude to is when I have parents lamenting to me that their children are no longer active in the church. Yet they are the ones that if you visit their home have no evidence of the faith, i.e. home icon corner, bible or religious books. When you ask about this and about family prayer I almost always receive a stare from them that makes me think that I have begun to speak in a new language to them. Their idea of teaching the faith relied solely on the church and its clergy and teachers and not in the home. The clergy and and teachers have only a small amount of possible contact time with the youth as opposed to the family. While this contact time is vital and important, it must also be reinforced in the home otherwise one will cancel the other.

I agree, if the youth are surrounded by the faith and prayer at home, in church, and constantly in their daily lives they will be most likely to continue in the faith when they have reached maturity.

In other words, let us have everyone, parents, teachers and clergy get on this as team effort, because without one part of the team, we will definitely lose the game of salvation.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Fr. Anthony,

What you describe is a big problem with Greek born parents of a certain generation that have immigrated here. They are used to a society where Orthodoxy permeates the culture (although that is waning greatly in Greece today) and it was also taught in schools. Therefore, there was no reason to talk about God, religion, or Orthodox praxis in the home.

The generation of seventy somethings and older born in this country are actually called in some circles of the Greek Orthodox religious community..the 'lost generation' because of that very fact. Subsequent immigration of the 60's and 70's would probably have brought the same mentality to their offspring.

In Christ,
Alice

Agreed, Father - that was not intended as clerical finger pointing as I myself have said "it's not my fault" on this issue. The team approach is the only one with a chance of success. Without both the clergy and parents being "hands on", it won't happen.

And it is true some parents tend to treat parishes like a kind of reform school - drop the kids off for a service, pick them up and expect some magical change to overcome them. It usually doesn't work that way.
FDD

Dear Diak,

Please read my post to Father on the Greek social phenomenon he is probably facing where he is located.

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Lord!

I pray not, otherwise we have lost already!

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Of course it doesn't work that way Fr Dcn - there is no backing from the home then . You cannot leave it to the Church . The children just look and think [ even if they don't actually put it into words ] " well this is for kids - once I'm grown up I don't have to do this anymore "

Parent's and children have to worship together , they have to pray together in the home , the parents are the first teachers - but if they are not secure in what they are trying to pass on - then there are problems.