John,

Try this for some ideas.

http://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000107

At some point the mission must get to the point of having a priest.

Develop several cells for prayer using the prayer services we have. During the week invite neighbors, friends, and relatives. Begin weekly vespers. When the growth has reached 50-100 begin petitioning Bishop John for a priest.

CDL

Yes in a sense, but not for the non-Catholics. Actually there is only one officially designated local Ordinary in any area if I am not mistaken.
But that is not what I wrote. I stated that Protestants are western Christians and the Canons for ascription still apply. If you have any new information about this please post.

The local Ordinary does not even have to tell the prospective converts that other Sui Iuris churches exist, although they might find out on their own. The local Ordinary (assuming he is latin, as almost all are) will not open missions for a non-Latin Sui Iuris church and will not burden his diocese with the cost of a mission. It is not his responsibility.

I think it is important to differentiate between two types of what we call mission: One type (the classic) would be a brand new endeavor to convert people who have no exposure at all. The other would be a small congregation of previously evangelized people who migrate into an area but are unable to sustain the costs of a parish and need assistance, hopefully they will grow through conversions but their presence is due to migration.

In the case of establishing a mission in the African-American inner city neighborhoods in cities like St Louis we are assuming that they have no prior exposure to the Byzantine rite and are not themselves calling for service based upon that. If Vladyka John of Parma wishes to open a mission to Norwegians, Japanese-Americans or African-Americans it is on his tab exclusively.

However, if some such non-Latin Catholics show up in the area of a Latin diocese and they are not properly served by a church of their own jurisdiction he (the Latin bishop) has an obligation to try and meet their special needs because he is the local Ordinary. That is the law, he may not ignore them even if they actually have a hierarchy elsewhere in the region that does not presently have the means of reaching them. Usually this is not done well, but in the case of St Louis the Latin diocese is cooperating with the Eparchy of Parma for Ruthenians, it is a nice arrangement as far as it goes but the Archdiocese will not shell out any serious money to convert Protestants in the inner city into Ruthenians. That includes donating church buildings.

Put another way, if the Eparch of Parma does not have the funds or manpower to serve Bellville Illinois (or elsewhere), the Latin bishop of Bellville has no obligation to build or subsidize a mission to convert non-Catholics to the Ruthenian Sui Iuris church. If some Ruthenians move into the area he must make some reasonable attempt to serve them according to the law, even if it is no more than instructing a local priest to Chrismate and commune a family's infant. This is my understanding of it.

+T+
Michael

Protestants are not in the same category as Orthodox people who enter the Catholic Church. If they are received through the Ruthenians, Melchite or the Ukrainians it does not matter then they are in among that flock.

It is great that Bishop John has been able to organise something in St Louis for Ruthenian Byzantines. It is his obligation in his diocese to establish churches to serve his own people. That he has an arrangement with this school is good. It was never the responsibility for the local Latin bishop to provide anything for the Ruthenians. When they got their own Eparchy all ths was transfered to the Eparch. When Ruthenians move around the USA they either move within an Eparchy or move from one to another eparchy. Russian Caholics on the otherhand moved from one Latin bishops diocese to another as they move around because they dont have their own Eparchy in the USA.

Various Latin bishops maintain chaplancies all over the world for people of a particular ethnic group. very often this is by an arrangment with a diocese in the country of origin. They also have similar arrangments with other Rites/Churches where the numbers are such the particular Rite/Church does not have it's own juristiction in the place.

ICXC
NIKA

Yes, of course. But I think you fail to grasp my point. :rolleyes:

In fact, the St Louis mission predates the accession on Bishop John by many years. I disagree, see my posts above. I think we are writing past each other and this thread is going no where faster than I have ever seen a thread...

Dear ByzantineCatholicForever,

I agree with you... to me it's sad to see Byzantine Catholics going Roman Catholic, primarily because the the Latin rite is so huge already, and the Byzantine Rite is so small... we are small and ignored enough as it is.

There is no sin in changing rites-- either from Roman to Byzantine, or from Byzantine to Roman. I think you misunderstand what the Holy Father meant. He probably meant that it's a sin for Byzantines to go Roman only because they're too spiritually ambivelant or lazy to be Byzantine, and I'm sorry to say that Byzantines who attend Latin rite churches but who have access to a Byzantine church probably fit that description.

But if a Byzantine wants to become Latin rite because he prefers it and is more spiritually fulfilled, then fine. One may only change rites formally once in her life.

It pains me to say that the Byzantine Rite will probably always be small, because the lazy ones go Roman, and the strong, faithful ones who love it end up going Orthodox because they're probably not getting the full Byzantine experience.

It seems to me that the solution is, once again, to follow the former Holy Father's directive and be BYZANTINE. If BCs were getting the full experience of our rite (and most aren't) we would not be tempted to go Orthodox. We can't keep the lazy ones from leaving, and quite frankly I wouldn't even want to, but we could at least keep the faithful ones from doxing-- IF we were faithful to our theology, spirituality, and traditions.

God bless,

Karen

Dear MizByz,

I think it's unwise to characterize Byzantine Ruthenians who join the Latin church as 'lazy', that's a pretty broad brush.

There must be 101 reason a Byzantine Catholic would join a Latin parish, if not 1001. I cannot for the life of me understand the attraction of it, but I understand the necessity of finding a parish home one can regularly attend.

I think any well catechized Byzantine who is stuck in a Latin parish has endured much already, I think we should cut them some slack. They don't owe the BC church anything, and the church likewise owes them nothing. There is still a great harvest out there.

Praying for my Byzantine Melkite, Ruthenian and Ukrainian friends out there...may their message reach the multitudes who need them so very badly.

+T+
Michael

Happy and holy Easter to those on the true calendar that comes to us from the Apostles.

XB
BB

Dear Michael,

Christ is risen!

Re-read my post... you'll see that I'm specifically talking about BCs who have access to a Byzantine church, and who aren't even spiritually attracted to the Roman church, but who go because it's more convenient.

Surely, if a BC is attending a Latin rite church because he has no Byzantine church to go to, because he's attracted to the Latin rite, he's not lazy. Nuts, maybe, if the latter, but...

God bless,

Karen

OK, I get it now, sorry.

+T+
Michael

Dear Michael,

No problem. When I made this same comment on another message board, I got blasted by a Latin riter who took that as an insult. I explained that it IS easier to be Latin rite in many ways-- more parishes to choose from, closer to home, shorter liturgies, more relaxed fasting regulations. He realized I wasn't blasting the spirituality of the Latin rite, and calmed down.

God bless,

Karen

To return to his or her original posting, ByzantineCatholicForever writes:

Please, someone help me with ideas on how I can gain more people for my Byzantine Catholic Mission. I NEVER EVER want to lose it.

I suggest that you read a paperback copy of Story of a Soul, the Autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux, and then ask for her help with the evangelization of your local mission.

Don't simply dismiss or wave off my suggestion. God has given St. Therese the task of helping missions.

Interesting thread, but my mind is still spinning from this remark:

This suggestion will turn off a lot of people because who wants to go to Divine Liturgy where half of the congregation is black?

Ouch. I guess its assumed that only white people are Byzantine Catholics. And ony white people are on this forum

Though the author's idea is really a good creative one, if racial prejudices and stereotypes are a problem then you got more serious problems than the survival of Byzantine Catholicism .

In order for any Church to survive in this century it has to reach out to people of other races. Frankly, class differences are more challenging than race though they'll have to be tackled eventually too.

Indigo

Indigo:

I am in complete agreement with you. That is why I suggested:

The Roman Catholic Church is leaving the black inner city and moving to the white suburbs in most major communities. Many of the inner city churches have been closed and are for sale.

Let's direct our evangelization efforts to the abandoned inner city parishes.

If some Eastern European-Americans do not want to worship with African-Americans, then I think such Eastern-European-Americans have some soul searching to do.

John Patrick,

You speak much wisdom here!! Amen to what you say.

CDL

I sadly know that raceism both ways is still a problem in all areas of the country. I think John Patrick's comment that you quoted was hyperbole. I pray for the day when we have Eastern Catholic missions and Churches that reach people without regard to race. I suspect to some extent we already do.

CDL