I was exercising this morning and I heard voices outside. I heard a knock, I went to the door and as I expected there were 2 Jehovah's Witnesses passing out their wares.

As soon as they started I told them I was Catholic and started in with the fact that their organization has predicted the end of the world about 7 times and failed. The leader shot bakc that they didn't predict the end of the world, just that we are in the end times; with which I said that they did in fact predict the end of the world.

I then said that in the Gospel According to St. John, St. Thomas falls down and proclaims in the Greek "The Lord of me and the God of me!" when he examines Our Lord's side. They side stepped the issue. In fact, I proclaimed that Jesus is God. I made sure they knew where I stand. (I'm quite proud that I proclaimed Him as Lord and God to the JWs.)

They brought up that Our Lord says the Father is greater than Him. I responded that He was speaking of His human nature which composes the hypostatic union of God and man in the person of Jesus Christ.

They asked where did God go when Jesus died. I responded that he preached to the spirits in prison until the resurrection. They said the scripture says that God cannot die. I said that the human nature of Jesus died.

Somewhere along the line I mentioned that they flip flopped again in that the JWs used to forbid blood transfusions and now they allow them. The leader agreed that they changed the teaching and tried to back it up by say that the Bible says that certain things can be seen in new light.

They started on the Sola Scriptura angle and I said that no where in the Bible does the Bible say which books belong in the Bible. They brought up the verse "All Scripture is
inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be equipped, prepared for every good work."

I shot back with the fact that no one knew what the Canon of Scripture was until the Church decided the Canon at the Councils of Rome, Carthage, etc... And that the translation that they use is no where near as reliable as what St. Jerome did as he had access to manuscripts that have since crumbled into the dust. They had no answer for that.

They kept harping on the fact that Noah preached for 80 years before the Flood came and that they were there to spread the news of the End of the World.

They then said that they could see that they were getting nowhere with me so they again said that they were going door to door preaching the End Times and we wished each other a good day.

How could I have handled this better? My heart was racing in the beginning and I was a bit flustered until half way through the conversation.

Dr. Eric,

You did fine!

However, there are few things I would have added. I will post later, what I would have said.

Dr. Eric,

You did very well. If you think about it the verse "All Scripture is
inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be equipped, prepared for every good work" does not support "Sola Scriptura". It does not say that the "Bible alone" is the rule of faith. It just says that the Bible is Divinely Inspired, and is good for all those things outlined in the verse. Just some ammo for the future.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Whether the Aryans are heretics or white racists - or both - tell them to go away!

Fr. Serge

What the deacon posted was what I was going to say but in more detail.

Good job. You handled their questions quite well and I will remember the ways you answered them just in case they come to my door.

BTW, I did not know that they changed their position on blood tranfusions. Perhaps, the legal consequences of their former position were too high. Peace in Christ,

Joe

Fr. Serge,

Blahoslovy!

I meant Arians as in the spiritual children of the Heresiarch Arius. As the Jehovah's Witnesses are Arians with another name... sort of.

If it was a joke, I apologize if I didn't get the Irish wit, my Irish blood is diluted.

Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement everyone!

I think that engaging them in a polite yet serious conversation as you did, instead of slamming the door in their faces and/or calling them names, was exactly the right thing to do. They probably don't get treated like human beings very often, and may be inclined to think more seriously about your arguments as a result.

I also admire what you said to them the one about how did people know what the bible was before the Church defined which are inspired is a classic apologist statement to be used by Orthodox Catholics which I have never had fail me when i told it to Sola Scriptura heretics.

I would have emphasized that I love them even though they are heretics and hope that God blesses them regardless..not bless their heresy but their works which are simple orthodox virtues. I find simple love is a good pathway to conversion, along with speaking the truth. The JW I have read is usually like a harmful cult. the Michael Jackson family are former JW and look at all there problems.

I think to some degree JW's could be treated the way harmful cult deprogrammers treat people...however that is. Perhaps speaking to former JW's who became Orthodox Catholic is the best way to get answers.

Dr. Eric,

A good response!

Most would simply choose not to speak at all and that is an opportunity lost. Knowing your faith is very important because it helps to formulate responses quickly.

I keep literature in the closet near my front door (the “Our Faith - A popular presentation of Byzantine Christianity” by Father John Matusiak). As the JWs offer to sell me their booklets I offer them a free copy of “Our Faith” and start to tell them about Jesus Christ. I keep to positive things if I can, not putting down specific JW teachings but presenting the correct teachings.

I have had more fun with Mormons. A few years back I had them in my living room five weeks running. Each time they presented a Mormon teaching I countered with a Christian one, and backed it up with Scripture, the Church Fathers and plain history.

The absolutely worst thing one can do is to slam the door. The evangelizers go away convinced in their faith. If one does not know what to say, simply say: “I have a good relationship with Jesus Christ and I know that what the Church teaches is true, so I am not interested in anything you have to say. But would you like to come to my Church on Sunday? I know people there who can explain the faith better than I.”

Admin

I don't know what it is, but every time the JW's or the Mormons knock at my door, they never want to talk!!! They hand me literature and leave very quickly. Maybe it's time to trim my beard???

Alexandr

Alexandr,

Well, since you're 6' 7" and have a beard it very well may have something to do with it!

You don't look like this do you?



Just kidding! :p

Alexandr,

I hope your look is more like this:



So you know I'm not picking on you.

I've always had that problem. Here is my 2nd grade school picture:



Alexandr

Ok, fun aside, this is a section devoted to the spreading evangelization witness of the church and not comparing school photos . I would this thread to get back on topic. If not, and it had run its course I will be forced to close it.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

My wife and I got a big kick out of that one Alexandr!!!



All kidding aside, thanks for the support and help everyone.

What other advice does anyone have?

Admin,

Thanks for the idea on Fr. John's pamphlets. I just ordered a bunch to keep them on hand.

In Christ,

John

We had some JW's move in diagonal from us. They walked passed us, and one visably noticed the cross I wear around my neck. Now I think they're bent on 'saving' us. What to do to get out of under the spying eyes of the watchtower?

I was going to make a sign to place on the front door that said something like 'No soliciting or evangelizing'. (We have a lot of sales people too). Is that rude or okay? Do you think that will only make them hound us more?

I do not want to talk to them or invite them in. They have hounded us to the point of harassment. How to get them to go away? I know I am being uncharitable, but I don't want to deal with them.

You could try putting blessed salt on the threshold (no, I am not joking). Failing that, you could simply ask them politely to go away.

Fr. Serge

Fr. Serge,

You've peaked my interest. I've never heard of blessed salt. Can you give me more details on this?

I guess I could just politely tell them to go away. But, I think they really are bent on converting us. Do you think hanging a big crucifix on the door is too much? (I am joking on that one).

I don't know in the Byzantine tradition, but in the Latin Church salt is (was ?) used for many purposes, especially to make holy water:

Salt

The blessing in the Rituale Romanum says "that all delusion and wickedness, or crafty deceit of the devil, and every unclean spirit, may flee and depart from the place in which thou art sprinkled,"
Blessing of Water from the Rituale Romanum
English Translation

Last month the priest blessed the water at our Indult Latin Mass chapel and now I have a gallon of holy water and a can of blessed salt.

I have to say that I am extremely disappointed in some of the posts on this thread. Instead of discussing the evangelism efforts of the Church, we have made light of things and tell faithful to send someone packing. This is shameful for anyone to suggest that this is not a missionary effort on the part of the Church.

Closing doors, asking people to leave, performing acts to expel demons, give these people very little to even look at the Church for in any sort of light. In most cases, some of these people are not as bed rock in thier faith as one would believe. This is an opportunity to witness our faith, and to proclaim the real Good News of the Church.

If you are that insecure in your faith, maybe then you should close the door, etc. Then you need to look at why you are so insecure in your faith that you can not even bring yourself to bear witness to others. You need to arm yourself with prayer, study your faith, and receive the sacraments, especially the Eucharist regularly. This all builds confidence and security. Remember if the apostles took to the practice of shutting doors, etc., none of us would be able to call ourselves Christians. Conversion begins with you, and instead of falling for their heresy, you can be a witness and evangelist to the truth.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Fr. Anthony,

You are absolutely right. I apologize for my behavior, and for my post. I ordinarily go out of my way to evangelize. I have been very uncharitable.

I will say that I do pray for their souls, for their conversion. But, I have behaved very shamefully. I am very happy for your much needed correction.

I pray my post has not lead anyone astray, or to feel uncharitable to others. Charity and understanding toward others is always a holy and virtuous path.

Again, I am sorry. I will try to remember what a great saint used to say: "I talk, and talk, but I don't say anything". There is a very good lesson in this for me, but making this mistake. Holy Charity.

Thank you, Father, for your charity in correction, and giving the example of a true Christian.

Peace,
a very unworthy sinner

Dear Unworthy Sinner from Kansas,

Don't feel bad. Some of us do not have the gift of gab...I'm one. I speak too much and no one understands me. That's why I prefer writing to express my opinions. :rolleyes:

The previous threads were all very humorous, and really made my day. I thank all the contributors...especially Dr. Eric and Alexandre. As for the JW, I always found myself simply telling them I'm not interested. I know that face to face I would not be able to think of the right things to say.

Dr. Eric on the other hand....

Zenovia

Dear Bedwere,

I find what you posted on blessed salt interesting. I'm curious though, can a person step on something that is blessed? In other words, if the salt was placed in the doorway, it would be stepped on. Is that allowed? Or must it be placed in a protected area.

I know that we Orthodox are careful with our holy water. The water is usually poured into plants, etc. rather than into something that would be considered contaminated...such as a drain.

I had a rather humorous thought on that. I wonder if anyone would come to my door if I placed blessed salt on it. I live in the sinful Northeast.

Sorry Father Anthony, I know I'm not supposed to write this on this forum, but I am curious.

Zenovia

I was once told the when the JW's come to the door it will usually be an experienced person paired with an apprentice. My friend who told me this found it best to aim her discussion at the inexperienced partner who was less knowlegeable and possibly more likely to be influenced by the truths of Christianity. I don't know if this is true, but it might be helpful when trying to speak the truth in love.
Michele

Blessed salt and its uses:

The Eastern Churches do not put salt in water that is to be blessed, probably because we usually drink newly-blessed Holy Water, or simply because no such custom of adding salt ever arose among us. There is an exception of sorts: in suitable climates (such as Tarpon Springs, Florida) the Blessing of Waters is held at the seashore and the Cross is thrown into the sea and retrieved by young men who dive after it. You may have seen this on the news - the assembly in Tarpon Springs is large and normally a Metropolitan, or even the Archbishop, is the main celebrant.

A different sort of exception can occur informally: I've known priests to add rose-water to the Holy Water used for blessing the foods on Pascha. That's not required; it's just an additional touch for the Paschal joy.

Salt is blessed quite simply, with a prayer found in the Agiasmatarion or Trebnik - I'll hunt it up and post the text later today. The blessing of salt does not normally include sprinkling the salt with Holy Water, since that would not do the salt much good.

The uses of blessed salt are not specified in the Canons, so far as I know, so it really depends upon good sense. One would certainly not throw the salt at anyone, since this could do serious damage (especially if the salt landed in the victim's eyes). One might conceivably use the blessed salt in preparing certain special foods associated with feast days; since these vary from one ethnic group to another I won't specify anything in particular.

In cold climates rock salt is often sprinkled on pavements against ice, which can cause serious accidents (the ice, not the salt). In that instance, one could well sprinkle some blessed salt on the pavement with a prayer that those who pass may be kept safe from accidents and other harm.

Sprinkling a bit of blessed salt on the the threshold is symbolic of the prayer to keep the house and all who dwell there under God's protection and keep out evil spirits who seek to do us spiritual harm. If we are going to use the salt in that way, we should sprinkle it very sparingly while offering (quietly) an appropriate prayer - these practices are not magic; they reinforce our prayers.

The need to dispose of blessed salt does not often arise: it's almost unheard-of for salt to "go bad". One would not put the blessed salt in gardens, potted plants, or anyplace else used to grow things, since the salt would discourage the plants from growing.

The often-mentioned reluctance to step on something which has been blessed is correct, but again requires good sense. The Church is consecrated, but that does not prevent us from walking on the floor (or washing the floor, for that matter). The house is blessed, but we also walk on the floor of the house and clean the floors in various ways. Farms are blessed, but we still walk in the fields. And so on. In other words, we would not deliberately walk on what is blessed unless that is part of its proper purpose: we bless the fields to bring forth food, which requires tending the fields, sowing the seed, tending the plants, and harvesting. But we would certainly not purchase a carpet for the floor if the carpet had some semblance of iconography on it, nor would we consider it proper to work iconography into a marble or mosaic flooring in the church.

So, as with everything the Church blesses, we make use of blessed salt according to the teaching of the Church.

Fr. Serge

well done! you know what time it is!
Much Love,
Jonn

One more thing the original poster could have mentioned is that Russell himself was a fraud. He was taken to court for trying to sell "Miracle Wheat" or some odd thing, and lied under oath, if I remember right. I think he did something else illegal but can't remember.

Joseph Smith was likewise a phony. The booklet from Conciliar Press "Cultist at My Door" talks more about these cult founders' shady backgrounds.

Whether or not JWs or other cultists will even believe these facts out of blind loyalty and delusion is another thing.

Would love for an Orthodox author to take up the subjects of cults. Lots of Protestant books, but the views expressed in them (by the authors) are not always in agreement with catholic belief.