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#206056 - 01/20/06 03:25 PM Re: Music for Theophany
KO63AP Offline
Грай, бандуро, грай!
Member

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 1099
Loc: Ѳулκ ...
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim:
There are parishes that cannot afford that outlay, or could not use the menaion because it lacks episcopal approval, but there are patrons who have been known to donate whole sets for use, too.
It all depends on attitude and priorities.

As for not having episcopal approval - there is 'Papal' approval. We are advised to use texts from our Orthodox brethren when we ourselves do not have them (see below).

Are these books worth the price. Yes, but only of they will be used. If a parish is content with Divine Liturgy only (except for the end of Great Week), and to use 'generic' propers (Except for Sundays and Great Feasts) it would be pointless. The money would be better spent familiarising people (beginning with the pastor) with the neglected traditions of the East.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον ηµάς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Quote:
IV. Competencies and Components of Liturgical Legislation

29. Liturgical books and ecumenism
Can. 656 § 1 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches affirms that the only books to be used in liturgical celebrations are those which have received ecclesiastical approval. Although an obvious principle, some practical difficulties are encountered. In fact, some Eastern Catholic Churches lack their own editions of liturgical books, or at least some, and must use editions, which objectively speaking are sometimes very well done, used by the corresponding Orthodox Churches. Such use occurs with the tacit approval of the Apostolic See or the local Authority. This necessity, each case being examined with prudence, may prove itself a valuable custom, as a manifestation of the partial but deep and extensive communion existing till today between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches which come from a common trunk, and may serve as a dynamic seed for the recovery of full communion. On the other hand, quite a number of editions of liturgical books published in Rome are sometimes appreciated and used by Orthodox brethren. Nonetheless, any unnecessary differentiation between the liturgical books of the Eastern Catholic Churches and those of the Orthodox should be avoided. Rather, common editions, in the measure in which it is possible, are encouraged. Pope John Paul II affirms, in the occasion of his address to the Catholics of the Armenian Church, “It is particularly dear to me to wish that the common study of the liturgy and its necessary adaptations be a privileged field of collaboration between Armenian Catholics and Orthodox.”[29]

Such a wish is repeated anew in the general terms of the Ecumenical Directory n. 187 which exhorts the use of liturgical texts in common with other Churches or ecclesial Communities, because “when Christians pray together, with one voice, their common testimony reaches the heavens and is understood also on earth.”

[29] John Paul II, Homily during the Divine Liturgy in the Armenian rite (21 November 1987): L'Osservatore Romano, 23-24 November 1987, p.6; see also in Servizio Informazioni per le Chiese Orientali, supplement to nn. 485-556, p.6.

From: “Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches”, A reproduction of the official English translation. Published by Eastern Christian Publications, Fairfax, VA 1996. ISBN 0-9640512-1-4.

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#206057 - 01/20/06 04:49 PM Re: Music for Theophany
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Superb, Andrij, simply superb. Use that Instruction...and often.
DD

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#206058 - 01/20/06 05:03 PM Re: Music for Theophany
KO63AP Offline
Грай, бандуро, грай!
Member

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 1099
Loc: Ѳулκ ...
Thank you, Father Deacon.
As I keep telling certain people: "I'm just being a good Catholic and doing what Rome says we should do! "

In my previous post, I had meant to include a link to Eastern Christian Publications . There you go.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον ηµάς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

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#206059 - 01/20/06 05:56 PM Re: Music for Theophany
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Within the U.S. Ruthenian metropolia there exists already the books from the Sisters of St. Basil (Festal Menaion, Triodion, Pentecostarion, Vespers, Matins), as well as monthly menaions set to music and produced by MCI. Were there no internal resources, I could see going to something like the SJK Menaions, but we have our own resources. Other jurisdictions may not have them, however.

There was a time when I could not obtain an edition of the Bridegroom Matins, so we resorted to using one from the OCA, adapted for our traditions. Now that MCI has produced Bridegroom Matins, we no longer need to do that.

Pastoral judgment in one's own jurisdiction is really the determining factor as to how broadly parishes are permitted to interpret the canons on books and ecumenism mentioned above. It all depends on how much leeway is granted for using other sources locally.

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#206060 - 01/20/06 06:57 PM Re: Music for Theophany
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
?? Resources are resources, Jim. They do not belong to any one "jurisdiction". I am a bit confused considering you've worked hard to make the argument there is no "standard" or "approved" works in this thread. Seems a bit circuitous.

All of the works you have cited have various deficiencies. If something like the SJKP is available, and it works for the particular parish situation, it is ABSOLUTELY compatible with the Instruction from Rome. It often takes Rome to remind us that we do need to be conscious of not overtly creating additional liturgical differences between ourselves and our Orthodox brethren.

I do agree that each pastoral situation is unique, and the clergy need to decide what is best in each parish situation. I do not want a snafu like last year on Good Friday when a book said "no other text is to be used on this occasion" when (1) that was not the case and (2) it did not agree with the normative Typikon for the Metropolia. Each local situation is different and the clergy need to decide what is most beneficial for the parish community.

n.b. It's interesting Fr. David in his Typikon makes reference to the SJKP works, and specifically refers one to the "Book of Akathists" on certain feast days and occasions.
DD

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#206061 - 01/21/06 10:02 AM Re: Music for Theophany
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Diak, being circuitous is part of the deal. The selection of a resource requires viewing from many angles.

Are there many Ruthenian parishes that sing the SJK menaion to prostopinije chant? Maybe someone from the northeast does this. Anyhow, pastoral decision-making does not mean that I as a cantor choose the resource for use, whether I think it is more useful or not. Maybe I can influence the decision, though.

I see the SJK menaion being used in places where little singing is done, where it is read solo, and in Russian, ROCOR, OCA or Ukrainian parishes. Is it used routinely elsewhere?

There is more to resource selection than how good, complete, etc. it is.

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#206062 - 01/21/06 01:57 PM Re: Music for Theophany
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
I don't know about "part of the deal", but life in any Byzantine parish, Orthodox or Catholic, requires a certain liturgical and musical economia and boxing yourself into one set of works is like a car in the Ozarks late at night with a stuck accelerator and no brakes.

I was complemented recently at Sat. Night Vespers when I sang the three stikhera to the Theotokos of Paul of Ammorum from the SJKP Octoechos, not only for the quality of language but the theological content (it certainly wasn't because of the quality of my singing).

I have never, in 20+ years, ever had the same specific type of comment for a specific set of stikhera from other sources with the exception of some of Raya's Vespers stikhera settings and some OCA settings. This comment originated with a Latin person who said this who is leaning Eastward.

When I hear "we can't do that" or "we don't do that" it is often the first symptom of a dying church.
Fr. Deacon RLB

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#206063 - 01/21/06 02:36 PM Re: Music for Theophany
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Diak, I have to say that we are at sixes and sevens when it comes to this matter of resources, you and I. I offer resources to my priest and vice versa, and we discuss what is best for the parish. We use what works for most of our parishioners. Ultimately, he decides what we use. There is an abundance of resources to choose from and, depending on budget, some are more easily usable than others. Ours is not a dying parish, but a young one that is growing. Your observations about stuck accelerators just does not apply to us, but may apply to older congregations where change is less acceptable, and apparently has application in some parishes you may have attended. A parish that does not use SJK menaions is not necessarily a dying one, just a parish with limited resources.

I am glad that your use of many different resources is being met with compliments, but
like I said, there are many angles. It is not simply either/or when looking at different parishes.

About the only other thing I can add is that I approach this ministry from the standpoint of helping the entire congregation to worship as fully as possible. My role is more as a facilitator with our priest's blessing.

Sometimes these discussions really need face to face interaction in order to make more sense. The Forum has its limits, too. I am sorry if there is anything I have said that may have misled you. If so, that was not my intent at all.

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#206064 - 01/21/06 10:21 PM Re: Music for Theophany
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Oh, not at all Jim. Your comment about face to face is all too true - as all too often people are really saying about the same thing but talking past each other, and I am guilty myself of that. I think we are pretty close, actually.

One uses what works, what is pastorally prudent, and does not limit himself to one tool when another might work better. It's an incredible balancing act that often takes a Solomon's wisdom and the patience of Job to pull off.

With our diminishing numbers, and minimalized liturgical life in many places, something has to be done. We are all trying to bring as much to beautify the "lex orandi" as we can in our own way, and certainly in generalities we all will (hopefully) agree, and to which end our Holy Father has given us a road map in the Instruction. In particulars often there will be disagreement. Tak samo. If an Orthodox set of extant texts works better for a particular situation, that's where I will go.
DD

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