Site Links
ByzCath.org Home
Latest News
Liturgical Calendar
Lectionary
Newest Members
cherokeerose, shaihalude, HaroldV, Bombadil, Athos pilgrim, Deacon Frank, jonathan2, rohit, gerald antoine, WJP, Douglas William, Dave Johnson, nowa, JPC, systemsthinking
3374 Registered Users
Who's Online
24 registered (Alfonsus, ALLEN, AMM, Athanasius The L, carson daniel lauffer, ebed melech, Fr David Straut, Fr. Deacon Lance, griego catolico, Hieromonk Ambrose, Invictus, Jakub., Joanna, Jon, Logos - Alexis, Mateusz, Newbie, Pani Rose, stormshadow, 5 invisible), 60 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Private Forums
The Byzantine Forum also hosts these private forums: The Deacon's Door (for deacons and deacon candidates and their wives), the Orthodox Christian Studies Forum (for currently enrolled students only of the distance education programs offered by the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America) and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church Clergy Forum (for clergy, religious, and clergy wives of that Church). Contact an administrator for access.
Latest Photo
Nativity BVM, Palos Park, IL
Forum Stats
3374 Members
21 Forums
23560 Topics
303805 Posts

Max Online: 1087 @ 07/16/07 01:09 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#206473 - 06/12/06 09:49 AM Cantor Institute website updates
ByzKat Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 765
Loc: Upstate NY
Over on the Faith and Worship forum, I have posted a request for examples / collections of local prostopinije to add to the Chant Documentation Project materials on the Metropolitan Cantor Institute website . If you have recordings or sheet music you can contribute, please contact me!

Also - I have added outlines of most of the liturgical services, pages on each of the liturgical books, and rubrics for reader services. (I would like to provide parallel Church Slavonic and English texts of the services as well, organized according to the patterns in the Roman books of the Ruthenian Recension, but not if I'm the only one would be interested in them!) Please take a look at what is out there right now, and let me know if you find any errors, or have suggestions for future additions. Thanks!

Yours in Christ,
Jeff Mierzejewski
Cantor, Ss. Peter and Paul Byzantine Catholic Church
Endicott, NY
ByzKat@stny.rr.com

Top
#206474 - 06/12/06 10:12 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content
Moderator
Member

Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3215
Loc: Washington, PA
Where are the rubrics for reader's services?
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Top
#206475 - 06/12/06 10:31 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
ByzKat Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 765
Loc: Upstate NY
They should have been linked from articles on Vespers, Matins and Hours; they are at

http://metropolitancantorinstitute.org/ReaderServices

Right now we have rubrics for Vespers, Matins, and the Hours, and plan to add Compline (Great and Small) and Typika. Thanks, Father Deacon!

Jeff

Top
#206476 - 06/12/06 12:29 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content
Moderator
Member

Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3215
Loc: Washington, PA
What is the reasoning behind omitting the prayers of the specific hours in the Little Hours? Every Orthodox reader's service I have ever seen allows the reader to say these prayers.
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Top
#206477 - 06/12/06 01:06 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Jeff, a few comments although as I mentioned I am working an a larger, fuller and more coherent response via email:

Incense most definitely can be used during a Reader's Service even if a deacon is not present. The form of censer to be used should be a hand censer and not the ornate censer with bells and chains used for services when a priest is present. Even convents may have a nun who is given a blessing to cense outside the altar by the hegumenessa.

The order given for the end of the Little Hours is the opposite of the usual procedure amongst Orthodox and Greek Catholics. After "More Honorable" the Prayer of the Hours is said by the Senior Reader and not the priestly prayer said before. So for example at the First Hour, the Reader would say "O Christ, True Light" and does not say the prayer "Be gracious to us" preceding it.

At the conclusion at the end of the Our Father if using the pre-Nikonian form is "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner". I know of no usage that inserts "living God". Pre-Nikonian books of Rus' do include this as an alternate response.

Also the concluding paragraph at the end is not quite accurate; all Byzantine usages of services without a priest (not just "Great Russian") with the exception of the deacon giving Communion from Pre-Sanctified Gifts note that even a deacon is to be in riassa if leading the Reader's Service. A priest even does not fully vest for the Little Hours (other than the Royal Hours) but only wears the epitrakhil.

The Ordo nor any common usage in the tradition (Catholic or Orthodox) make any provision for a Deacon vesting without the blessing of a priest other than the Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts (but the priest is still present), or giving Pre-sanctified Gifts outside of the Divine Liturgy. The latter is a very specific privilege and blessing given to the deacon by the bishop.

Restoring the role of the deacon does not mean we instruct him follow a practice not known or celebrated in the tradition. More to come in a formal response.
FDD

Top
#206478 - 06/12/06 01:35 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
ByzKat Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 765
Loc: Upstate NY
Actually, the Reader Services rubrics were completely reformatted from non-HTML materials and a number of lines were omitted, particularly from the Hours. I had asked three individuals to review them before they were to be published, and when I said (by mistake) that they were available rather than in preparation, I should have responded (Father Deacon Lance) with a retraction rather than a link to the thrown-together file!

I stand by the fact that the Ruthenian service books, though they DO contain rubrics for priestless services, do NOT add a text at the Our Father, and I can find nothing similar in our own books; where in other sets of prayers I have found a good deal of variation (which I will be discussion with our own Diak, one of the reviewers, shortly).

The rubrics for deacon's services, with additional ceremonial, are justified separately, they have been used at the seminary for more than ten years, and I was asked to include them as an option. However, Professor Thompson and I decided to present them separately from the ordinary reader services rubrics, to keep the two sets from being intertwined.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

P.S. Now, the OTHER articles are the ones I was really looking for feedback on... but obviously this shows that Reader Services are of interest. Some of the very strong input I received back in the 90's (for example, opposition to using incense, which came from other cantors in the discussion) may need to be reconsidered.

P.P.S. The rubrics for vespers celebrated with a deacon are essentially the ones described by Archimandrite Kyrill Jenner as the ones he was taught many years ago. Again, I will re-announce when I have responses back and have fixed some of the problems caused by the text->HTML shift and the massive copying when the texts were re-arranged. Again, my apologies!

Top
#206479 - 06/12/06 01:52 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content
Moderator
Member

Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3215
Loc: Washington, PA
Fr. Deacon Randolph,

From the preamble of the Deacon Service page:

"In the past, when a deacon has served, the emphasis on the priest's role in the liturgical order has led to the tradition that a deacon leading services in the absence of a priest did so as if he were a layman. This was consonant with the gradual loss of the understanding of a deacon's liturgical role, especially when a priest serving alone customarily took on the deacon's parts of the service as well.

The order of services presented here were prepared by Father David Petras of Saints Cyril and Methodius Byzantine Catholic Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and are used at the seminary when services are led by a deacon, in the absense of a priest. They provide for a service, with more opportunities for ceremonial than are customary when a lay ecclesiarch leads the service, and prayers from the monastic tradition which replace certain of the priest's prayers at the conclusion of the litanies."

I must voice my support for such a change. The rules regarding deacons not vesting without a blessing, using a hand censer, not taking the litanies, need to be reviewed in light of the needs of the Church today and the history of the function of the deacon in total, East and West, from the beginning until now.

As deacons we were ordained by the bishop and vested by him. We serve at his discretion and blessing. Of course when a priest is present we ask for his blessing, but when a priest is not there I see no reason not to vest. We are blessed to do so at our ordination.

In fact, I believe for a deacon to conduct a priestless service exactly as a layman would do only reinforces the misconception among the laity that a deacon is just a super-layman not a real cleric.

I support the variations given between the Reader's and Deacon's Services as a way to distinguish the deacon from the laity while preserving the distinction between deacon and presbyter.

Fr. Deacon Lance
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Top
#206480 - 06/12/06 05:10 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Quote:
As deacons we were ordained by the bishop and vested by him. We serve at his discretion and blessing. Of course when a priest is present we ask for his blessing, but when a priest is not there I see no reason not to vest. We are blessed to do so at our ordination.

In fact, I believe for a deacon to conduct a priestless service exactly as a layman would do only reinforces the misconception among the laity that a deacon is just a super-layman not a real cleric.

I support the variations given between the Reader's and Deacon's Services as a way to distinguish the deacon from the laity while preserving the distinction between deacon and presbyter.

Fr. Deacon Lance
I equally disagree. First of all, we are not specifically "blessed" to vest at our whim. Secondly, I fear the obfuscation of the distinction of priest and deacon, or the possible pretention that the deacon is "playing priest" by vesting at his own whim.

At any Reader's Service he is wearing the riassa, a clear and obvious distinction. As Protodeacon David Kennedy made clear in our diaconal training, and to which I wholeheartedly agree, the deacon exercizes his liturgical ministry fully only in relation to and with the priest, and thus in his presence - and likewise there should be a visible distinction when he does exercise his full liturgical ministry. The extra solemnity of a full liturgical celebration with a priest and deacon together I feel only strengthens this aspect.

Another point - this is also general practice amongst the Byzantine churches, Catholic and Orthodox. I do not believe an innovation of the role of the deacon in this way helps in the restoration of his authentic role at all. This is only one particular case at the Seminary and the hierarchs have not indicated this to be a general practice, to my knowledge.
FDD

Top
#206481 - 06/12/06 09:58 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Pseudo-Athanasius Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 530
Loc: Tinley Park, IL
Dear Jeff,

Thanks for all your good work. I do have a question: could you explain how one goes about praying the canon? What exactly is it, where do I find it, what books do I need? If you've already answered this, could you just give me a pointer to where on the website it is?

I've BEMA linked to you from the BEMA blog, by the way.

Top
#206482 - 06/12/06 10:28 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
ByzKat Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 765
Loc: Upstate NY
Send me your postal address privately and I'll send you a copy of the Plainchanter issue with the information you need. This will also be appearing on the website; my hope is that the articles will basically provide all the liturgics a parish cantor will need - essentially, the "Liturgics for Dummies" y'all were talking about.

Jeff

P.S. Again - if people are interested in having a complete set of the services from the Ruthenian Horologion online, in Slavonic and English, let me know, and I'll see what I can do. The advantage is that the structure of, for example, the insertion of special rules for Lent, is VERY well organized.

Top
#206483 - 06/13/06 08:17 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content
Moderator
Member

Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3215
Loc: Washington, PA
Fr. Deacon,

"I equally disagree. First of all, we are not specifically "blessed" to vest at our whim. Secondly, I fear the obfuscation of the distinction of priest and deacon, or the possible pretention that the deacon is "playing priest" by vesting at his own whim."

Vesting at the need of the Church is not vesting at our whim. The idea that one cannot vest without a priest's blessing is tied up with the idea that the deacon is a commissioned layperson, not a real cleric as George Florovsky presents in his The Problem of the Diaconate in the Orthodox Church, http://www.philosophy-religion.org/diaconate/chapter_4.htm and this idea seems to still be carried by the Russian Church although ironically they do not deny that a deacon is a cleric. How can there be obfuscation or pretention? The prayers and rubrics are different, the priest's prayers and blessings are not taken.

Fr. Deacon Lance
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Top
#206484 - 06/13/06 09:59 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Quote:
Fr. Deacon,

Vesting at the need of the Church is not vesting at our whim. The idea that one cannot vest without a priest's blessing is tied up with the idea that the deacon is a commissioned layperson, not a real cleric as George Florovsky presents in his The Problem of the Diaconate in the Orthodox Church, http://www.philosophy-religion.org/diaconate/chapter_4.htm and this idea seems to still be carried by the Russian Church although ironically they do not deny that a deacon is a cleric. How can there be obfuscation or pretention? The prayers and rubrics are different, the priest's prayers and blessings are not taken.

Fr. Deacon Lance
I certainly appreciate Fr. Georges analysis and believe he is quite right in his observations.

The "need to the Church" is us to lead the Reader's Service, not to vest. The vesting is not a need, but a privalege. Again I will say that the deacon exercises the fullness of his public liturgical ministry in relation to and with the priest.Our service to the Church is within this framework, and doesn't necessitate our vesting without a priest.

I don't see it really as a question of cleric/layman. I see rather as respecting the full celebration of the liturgy with a priest present. I see it as respecting the hierarchal rank of orders in a visable way. I also see a need to be consonant with the traditional practice.
FDD

Top
#206485 - 06/13/06 10:25 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
P-A asked:

Quote:
I do have a question: could you explain how one goes about praying the canon? What exactly is it, where do I find it, what books do I need?
The Canon is one of the unique liturgical compositions of the Byzantine tradition. Some of the more famous writers are St. John Damascene, St. Cosmus of Maium, St. Andrew of Crete, etc. It is based on the nine biblical odes, with a structure of irmos, various numbers of troparia, and a katavasia, but Ode II is reserved only for Great Lent and for most of the year the Canon has eight odes.

There are proper refrains which are pertinent to the type of canon, such as "Glory to Thy Holy Resurrection, O Lord" for the Resurrection, "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" to the Mother of God, special refrains to the Trinity at Ode VIII, etc.

This is a somewhat complicated answer as there is no single print source for these. The weekday Canons according to the Oktoechos can be found in a good, comprehensive Oktoechos like that available from SJKP. Most days have multiple Canons for Matins and a changing Canon for Small Compline.

For the Menaion, Triodion and Pentecostarion, there are various sources of these, such as Uniontown, Ware, etc.

As far as online resources, several are available with Matins canons. Here is just a sample of the Octoechos which gets you through most of the year: http://www.archdiocese.ca/OctoechosComplete.pdf http://www.anastasis.org.uk/oktoich.htm
http://www.st-sergius.org/services/services2.html

The last link has all of the refrains inserted at the proper place so if you are singing all of the Canons it is there for you.


A "complete set of services"? Can you clarify what that will be, Jeff?
FDD

Top
#206486 - 06/13/06 10:39 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Some more links for material that may include Matins Canons:
For the Triodion: http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/triodion/triodion.html
This has all of the daily Canons for Great Lent as well as the Sundays at Matins.
Some excerpts from Archimandrite Ephraim: http://www.anastasis.org.uk/triodion.htm which mostly has Sundays.

Menaion:
http://www.anastasis.org.uk/menaion.htm
General Menaia: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/anonymous/menaion.titlepage.html
http://www.st-sergius.org/services.html

There is not much Pentecostarion material on-line, but again Archimandrite Ephraim has some:
http://www.anastasis.org.uk/pentecos.htm

General tips on building a liturgical library:
http://www.saintjonah.org/services/library.htm and there are many other goodies on Fr. John Whiteford's site including a variety of Canons.
FDD

Top
#206487 - 06/13/06 01:04 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Pseudo-Athanasius Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 530
Loc: Tinley Park, IL
Dear Diak,

What's SJKP?

Top
#206488 - 06/13/06 01:06 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Sorry, I had a teacher that used to throw erasers at us when we used acronyms and I should have learned my lesson.

That is St. John of Kronstadt Press, http://www.sjkp.org and the Octoechos they offer is "The Complete Octoechos". It is in four volumes and is currently the most complete English translation from the Slavonic in print.
FDD

Top
#206489 - 06/13/06 03:18 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
John K Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/01
Posts: 955
Loc: Rocky Hill, CT
St. John of Kronstadt Press

Top
#206490 - 06/15/06 09:54 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
ByzKat Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 765
Loc: Upstate NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Diak:
A "complete set of services"? Can you clarify what that will be, Jeff?
FDD
Father Deacon,

Just what I said - "a complete set of services from the Ruthenian Horologion" (i.e. the Chasoslov). Here's the tables of contents from the 1950 Roman Chasoslov for the Recensio Ruthena:

The Book of Hours (Časoslóv)
The service of the Midnight Office
Midnight office on weekdays
Midnight office on Saturday
Midnight office on Sunday
Morning prayers (upon rising from sleep)
The service of Matins
Matins on weekdays and during fasts
The Praises (Lauds)
Dismissals on weekdays
Matins on Sundays and feasts
The Praises (Lauds)
Funeral Matins, sung on Saturday
The service of the Hours
First Hours
Third Hour
Sixth Hour
Ninth Hour
Typika
The service of Vespers
Vespers in the Great Fast
The litija
Prayers before and after breakfast or the noon meal
Prayers before and after the evening meal
The service of Compline
Small Compline
Great Compline
Prayers before sleep

The Book of Canons (Kanónnik)
Supplicatory Canon to the Most Holy Theotokos (Paraklisis)
Akathist to our Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ
Akathist to the Most Holy Theotokos
Service to the archangels and angels (vespers and matins propers)
Service to Saint John the Forerunner (vespers and matins propers)
Canon to the Most Holy Theotokos Hodigitria (She who shows the way)
Service to the holy apostles (vespers and matins propers)
Service to Saint Nicholas (vespers and matins propers)
Service to the precious and life-giving Cross of Christ (vespers and matins propers)
Service to all saints (vespers and matins propers)
Resurrectional service in tone 6 (vespers and matins propers

Various troparia, theotokia and kontakia
Resurrectional troparia in the eight tones, with theotokia, hypakoje, prokeimena and kontakia
Troparia, theotokia and kontakia for the days of the week
Theotokia and stavrotheotokia in the eight tones
Troparia and kontakia for the various classes of saints

Troparia and kontakia for the time of the Triodion and Pentecostarion
Troparia and kontakia from the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee to Holy Pascha
Services of Great and Holy Pascha: Matins, Hours, and Vespers
Troparia, kontakia, prokeimena and dismissals for the Paschal season

On the signs used in the calendar

Monthly Calendar, from September 1 through August 31
For each day, gives the class and name of each saint commemorated, the rank of the commemoration,
and the troparia and kontakia for the saint or feast

Prayer of Saint Ambrose, bishop of Milan
The Jesus Prayer and rules for its use
Table of Paschal dates (Julian and Gregorian calendar)

The monthly calendar is already online, along with the basic hymns for each day of the year; I plan to add the traditional signs for the ranks of the feasts, along with an explanation.

For everything else, I'd like to present the 1950 Chasoslov in English, or parallel Slavonic / English, IF there's enough interest to justify the work. Each order of service would use the current official text for the Pittsburgh Metropolia where there is one, or the "best available" modern English translation, with an indication of the source of each, and have pointers to the available musical settings. Again, if there is interest, I might provide indications of where it differs from the older sources, such as the Zhovka Chasoslov and the Velikij Sbornik. That would largely cover the "modern Ruthenian" tradition, I think.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

Top
#206491 - 06/15/06 11:49 AM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
Diak Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 6529
Loc: Kansas
Quote:
For everything else, I'd like to present the 1950 Chasoslov in English, or parallel Slavonic / English, IF there's enough interest to justify the work. Each order of service would use the current official text for the Pittsburgh Metropolia where there is one, or the "best available" modern English translation, with an indication of the source of each, and have pointers to the available musical settings. Again, if there is interest, I might provide indications of where it differs from the older sources, such as the Zhovka Chasoslov and the Velikij Sbornik. That would largely cover the "modern Ruthenian" tradition, I think.
Thanks for the clarification, Jeff, but all you said in the previous post was the "Ruthenian Horologion" which doesn't really exist as such. While the table of contents is certainly ambitious, any use of the term "full" in the Byzantine tradition usually falls short i.e. the Interhours are missing, many of the general Menaion services are missing, Kanonik not complete, etc. from this list.

Now I understand you were meaning a full English translation from the 1950 Chasoslov. If you would have said that, it would have been much clearer.

It does sound like a worthwhile effort - perhaps it could build on what has been done with the Melkite or Basilian Horologia in terms of language to not reduplicate efforts or go back to the drawing board each time. You will find very little in the way of "official texts", I am afraid. I'd be happy to help if I can.
FDD

Top
#206492 - 06/15/06 12:16 PM Re: Cantor Institute website updates
ByzKat Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 765
Loc: Upstate NY
I apologize, Father Deacon. I did neglect to point out the correspondence here, since I had always understood that the Greek term Horologion and the Slavonic Časoslóv were essentially synonymous. (In the web additions you said you would be sending comments on, we did state: "The Ruthenian Časoslóv, which is the normative Horologion for the Byzantine Catholic Church, contains:", followed by what I quoted above. Obviously I should have included this line with the list.)

And thank you for your offer. A large part of the work on CANTOR-L throughout the late 90's was on collecting and getting approval for use for the various materials for all the services, so we have a good start, but I will likely take you up on the offer.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. Contents copyright ©1996-2009. All rights reserved.