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#206543 - 12/27/05 08:33 AM A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Changeable propers come in email downloadable versions and printed versions, depending on which internal church source you go to.

And the availability of computers, printers, and people to work them can vary by parish, which can impact the choice of source materials.

I am wondering what musical sources other cantors are looking for nowadays. I'm starting a list below. Please add to the list, and/or expand (or expound) on it. After all, sometimes things don't become available unless someone in a position to do something about it knows there is interest.

Also, I figure not everybody will agree on what is needed in general, but should know what they can use in their own parishes. And if there is enough additional interest, it might eventually happen.

For starters:

. Congregational Music for the Festal Menaion (especially for Vespers Psalm 140 Stichera, and Aposticha)
. Congregational Music for the Triodion
. Congregational Music for the Pentecostarion
. Para-liturgical Hymnal (for processional, recessional, and communion congregational singing when appropriate)

What are you trying to locate for YOUR parish?

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#206544 - 12/27/05 09:46 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Administrator Administrator Offline
Administrator
Member

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 4742
Loc: Virginia
Sometime in 2006 (hopefully the first quarter) I will be re-releasing an update to the Vesper 8 Tones (sung on Saturday evening) and the propers for the Great Feasts (Stichera at 140, Litija and Apostica). An updated Sunday Matins book is also in the works and the Vespers books will be reprinted with corrections. None of the updates reflect major changes to the settings. Most are corrections of typos. All I need is a dozen weekends with absolutely nothing else on my plate (that is a great wish in itself!).

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#206545 - 12/27/05 10:15 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
ByzKat Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 765
Loc: Upstate NY
Much of the actual material you're talking about is on the Metropolitan Cantor Institute website:

1. Vespers propers for all major and many intermediate feasts in the Menaion, and Matins propers for some (not all).

2. Vespers propers for the Sundays of Great Lent and the Paschal Season (working on Matins for next year)

Are you looking for a single book with, for example, all the Vespers and Matins propers in the Festal Menaion? It would probably be too large to print actual copies of, but might be do-able as a virtual or online document. If that's the case, I'd be happy to consider anthologizing the Vespers and Matins material, as we've already done with the monthly Menaion for the Divine Liturgy.

And of course, the Sunday Eight Tones for Vespers are in print from the MCI. John (or others), if you have suggestions, feel free to send them in.

I second the need for a hymnal. My own wish list would include a collection of the music for Great Lent, set to the melodies in the Ratsin _Prostopinije_; that's what I'm working on right now.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff Mierzejewski

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#206546 - 12/27/05 11:43 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Cantor JKF Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/05
Posts: 117
Loc: Pennsylvania (USA)
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim:
For starters:

. Congregational Music for the Festal Menaion (especially for Vespers Psalm 140 Stichera, and Aposticha)
. Congregational Music for the Triodion
. Congregational Music for the Pentecostarion
. Para-liturgical Hymnal (for processional, recessional, and communion congregational singing when appropriate)

Hi Jim,

Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

I would agree with everything that you've included on your "wish list" for 2006, and hope that our esteemed Administrator will be able to work on getting some of these materials together for our use.

I'd like to expand on your "Para-Liturgical Hymn" item. I would be interested in having decent English translations for the hymns contained in some of the older collections from Europe. I know that some work in this area had been done a number of years ago, resulting in the re-introduction of some very beautiful hymns for congregational singing before/after the Divine Liturgy or on retreats/pilgrimages. We have many talented cantors and clergy in our Eparchies that we can call upon to work to complete faithful translations that can then be set to the appropriate music.

More recently, efforts to create a new body of para-liturgical hymns have been undertaken by the MCI. These so-called "Lectionary Hymns," however, tend to be of very poor lyrical and musical quality and I, personally, have and will continue to avoid using these in any congregational setting. Any other area cantors with whom I have discussed these hymns have also expressed similar thoughts.

In the meantime, we can continue to use the existing collections or, as an alternative, one could introduce the singing of the Stichera from the Office before the Divine Liturgy in those parishes where the Office is not celebrated publicly. That practice keeps the beautiful hymnography of our Church alive and, from a practical standpoint, also keeps the various Tones "fresh" in the ears of the Faithful.

-- Cantor JKF

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#206547 - 12/27/05 11:45 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
I could use the special settings for Saturday Vespers. (We don't do Matins as a rule.)

Whenever we encounter the need for Festal Menaion materials (or Triodion or Pentecostarion)per Fr. Petras' Typicon, I go straight to the books of the Sisters of St. Basil, and chant the appropriate verses from there, plainchant. We sometimes xerox copies of the pages for parishioners to follow, if we discover the need early enough. For this coming Saturday we are xeroxing from the Festal Menaion.

Perhaps seperate books or downloadable files for Matins and Vespers- Festal Menaion, Triodion, and Pentecostarion settings- could eventually be made available? Six seperate files? It would depend on the actual need in the parishes, I would think, and a decision as to what is feasible nationally. (I am reminded of the OCA choir file cabinets of Soroka settings in 4-part harmony that became a small library unto itself.) A wish list is a place to start, at least.

Any other wishes out there?

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#206548 - 12/27/05 11:59 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Use of hymns not in our Levkulic Liturgy book involves making printed copies available in addition to the propers leaflet. It can get cumbersome to handle all the different piece parts, but now and then a hymn appears from MCI that fills a void locally, such as the hymn recently for the Feast of the Presentation of the Theotokos in the Temple. We had NO hymns locally reflecting that feast directly, telling the story of the feast as extensively as that one did. I am glad MCI is producing para-liturgical hymns, even if the quality may vary. (Very few musicians produce consistently good materials weekly. Even Telemann and J.S. Bach had some clunkers among their weekly cantatas for the Lutherans. )

I just wish the MCI ones were in a book already.

As to the older source materials and translating, etc., I don't think I have contacts out here in the west to do that.

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#206549 - 12/27/05 01:07 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Cantor JKF Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/05
Posts: 117
Loc: Pennsylvania (USA)
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim:
Use of hymns not in our Levkulic Liturgy book involves making printed copies available in addition to the propers leaflet. It can get cumbersome to handle all the different piece parts, but now and then a hymn appears from MCI that fills a void locally, such as the hymn recently for the Feast of the Presentation of the Theotokos in the Temple. We had NO hymns locally reflecting that feast directly, telling the story of the feast as extensively as that one did. I am glad MCI is producing para-liturgical hymns, even if the quality may vary. (Very few musicians produce consistently good materials weekly. Even Telemann and J.S. Bach had some clunkers among their weekly cantatas for the Lutherans. )

I just wish the MCI ones were in a book already.

As to the older source materials and translating, etc., I don't think I have contacts out here in the west to do that.
I would agree and imagine that there are more resources on the East Coast that could help with the translation efforts.

I have yet to see a "Lectionary Hymn" from the MCI that I would even consider using, so I'm not as anxious to see them publish an anthology of hymns.

I believe that the "Marian Hymnal," published in the mid-1980's by the Seminary Press, does have at least one hymn that could be used for the Presentation of the Mother of God in the Temple.

If you're looking to reflect the "story" of a particular Feast with a Hymn, you can always look to the Stichera for the day (using the OSBM series/translation as a source.)

-- Cantor JKF

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#206550 - 12/27/05 02:46 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
KO63AP Offline
Грай, бандуро, грай!
Member

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 1099
Loc: Ѳулκ ...
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim:
What are you trying to locate for YOUR parish?
Clergy who aren't ashamed of being "Orthodox in communion with Rome"? :p

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον ηµάς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

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#206551 - 12/27/05 08:50 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
JKF, by OSBM series, are you referring to the books of the Sisters of St. Basil?

Surely there are more wishes out there besides mine, and the need for translations. Or maybe I am just that far behind.

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#206552 - 12/28/05 01:41 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Steve Petach Offline
Cantor
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 565
Loc: Reseda CA
Jim writes:

Congregational Music for the Festal Menaion (especially for Vespers Psalm 140 Stichera, and Aposticha)
. Congregational Music for the Triodion
. Congregational Music for the Pentecostarion
. Para-liturgical Hymnal (for processional, recessional, and communion congregational singing when appropriate)


As Jeff mentioned, much of this is available in PDF form already on the M.C.I. website as well as via email.

My one personal wish would be for what is not likely to be again, it seems; to have all the congregation singing in full harmony with a true zeal for the liturgy. When more of the congregation responds to Western Christmas carols than to our traditional (Eastern)carols, one wonders where our church is truly heading. and this is with the music in front of them!!!

You did ask for a cantor's wish list after all.....

JKF wrote:
More recently, efforts to create a new body of para-liturgical hymns have been undertaken by the MCI. These so-called "Lectionary Hymns," however, tend to be of very poor lyrical and musical quality and I, personally, have and will continue to avoid using these in any congregational setting. Any other area cantors with whom I have discussed these hymns have also expressed similar thoughts.


Joe, have you published any paraliturgical hymns online for such a scathing review by your peers? Perhaps you would be willing to post yours? I know that I am not particularly good at such endeavours so I can't be too critical of others. At least there has been some efforts via the M.C.I website in this direction.

Steve,
(who will soon return to lurking mode after his last chastisement regarding his opinions on the HRM change of jurisdiction which reminded him that his opinions are just that.......opinions)

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#206553 - 12/28/05 10:28 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Some of my wish list items are available for download piecemeal, as needed, from MCI. There is no file of all of them, however.

It is really easier to do plainchant from the Festal Menaion than to work the process to reproduce the stichera from a website every time I need something.

I guess I am old school sometimes. Most of our parish resources are in print form already- booklets, Vernoski propers, and so on. My wish list is not yet in book form with music.

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#206554 - 12/28/05 09:15 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Cantor JKF Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/05
Posts: 117
Loc: Pennsylvania (USA)
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim:
JKF, by OSBM series, are you referring to the books of the Sisters of St. Basil?
Jim:
Yes - sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the anthology published by the Sisters of Saint Basil the Great at Uniontown.

-- JKF

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#206555 - 12/31/05 10:24 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Since my parish doesn't normally do Sunday Matins, it might be helpful to have certain key Sunday Matins services available in their entirety. That way, certain traditions wouldn't necessarily have to be tagged onto the Divine Liturgy. Instead, Matins could be celebrated for a special feast, just not celebrated every Sunday, since ongoing resources make it difficult to co-ordinate doing that. The typicon could be used as a source to determine which Matins services to do this for. We have service booklets like this for special Divine Liturgies. Why not for Matins. (Remember. This IS a cantor's wish list )

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#206556 - 12/31/05 10:45 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Administrator Administrator Offline
Administrator
Member

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 4742
Loc: Virginia
Jim,

I have a few different editions of Sunday Matins (they are all abbreviated slightly differently). I can send a copy of the most recent if you want. Hopefully I can re-release a very full version of Matins in the first quarter of 2006.

While you are working towards celebrating the actual service you could consider singing the music for the main parts of Sunday Matins before the start of the Divine Liturgy: “God the Lord”, the “Polyeleos Psalms”, “Hosts of Angels”, “Having Beheld the Resurrection of Christ”, “The Magnificat” (Ninth Ode), and the “Great Doxology”. The “Great Doxology” works very well as an incensing hymn. Music for all of these can be found on pages 98-108 of the 1997 “The Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom” book that I published.

Admin

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#206557 - 12/31/05 11:29 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
We did use "God is with us" from Matins out of one of the Levkulic booklets as one of the pieces during communion at Christmas. It was easy for the congregation to follow, since all they had to do was sing the same refrain after each verse.

I have my doubts that we will ever be able to do regular Matins per the Typicon at my parish with our current resources. It is usually too demanding of preparation time for the resources we have. That's why I thought a good half-measure would be a complete service for a specific feast- one that has some special activity going on that is missed when Matins isn't celebrated, or is just added at the beginning of a Liturgy as a workaround. Growing incrementally is what I'm thinking about for Matins, instead of attempting to launch regular Matins services.

In response to the suggestion of substituting Vespers for Liturgy on a weekday evening, usually it's a Wednesday night at my parish, unless a special feast is called for in the Typicon. One reason liturgies are preferred over Vespers is because they are usually offered especially for the sick or the deceased. It's only on evening liturgies that a hymn precedes the liturgy.

We don't have a hymn before Liturgy on Sunday. We do the Third Hour beforehand.

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#206558 - 01/01/06 12:03 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Administrator Administrator Offline
Administrator
Member

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 4742
Loc: Virginia
The “God is with us” from Compline can be a nice choice, especially during Nativity Fast.

For those starting Matins, preparing for it can be daunting. I recommend that they just begin by singing only the ‘fixed’ portions (like those I listed above) and just plain chanting everything that belongs in a proper tone (except for the Resurrectional Troparia that people will already know). Over time (and I’m talking a period of 3-5 years) things can be added in their appropriate tones.

I have also recommended a similar procedure for those starting Vespers. Where it has been used (starting with learning all the ‘fixed parts’ and singing just “O Lord” in tone and using a simple chant for the rest of the changeable hymns) it has been successful. The trick is to keep it manageable and add new things only when what’s already being sung is “old hat”.

I don’t know exactly how you end the Third Hour and begin the Divine Liturgy, but if there is time for incensing you might consider singing the Great Doxology. It is very easily embraced by the people and will certainly prime the singing pump.

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#206559 - 01/01/06 03:10 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
As for our Third Hour, a deacon or our priest censes the church during the Third Hour, usually about the time we sing the tropar. Once the Third Hour is completed, the Royal Doors are opened, and the liturgy begins, "Blessed is the Kingdom, etc." There is nothing in between.

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#206560 - 02/09/06 11:01 AM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Now that we are using the Triodion once again, I find an additional problem with MCI downloads: I can no longer access them. I have emailed Prof. Thompson in the hope that he or Jeff has a answer. It is probably a problem with Adobe 7.0.

Currently, I am consulting Fr. Petras' Typicon, then using appropriate stichera, etc. for Vespers from the Sisters of St. Basil's Triodion in plainchant, bypassing computerized materials altogether. Maybe things will eventually improve once there are sufficient resources to make more wishlist materials available in print.

(Turns out that I now have to save the file before I can access it, and must manually create a directory path for it before I can save it. Thanks, Adobe 7.0.)

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#206561 - 02/09/06 06:19 PM Re: A Cantor's Wish List for 2006
Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 1039
Loc: Arizona
Two updates to Adobe and a resend of the pdf files later, I am once get able to view and save MCI files without having to manually create directory paths. The system once again does it. I still prefer paper.

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