A side issue is that of 4-part harmony choirs versus unison congregational singing from a kliros. When it comes to a lot of material from outside the BCC, cantors for the latter have less to draw on. Most of St. Vladimir's stuff is for choir.

One of the things I miss are the natural harmonies sung by the older Slavic congregations. Introducing the English effectively squashed that in some places. Odd how that happened but if you happen to catch the rare Slavonic liturgy or if the priest takes some of the prayers in Slavonic, or the cantor starts, then the harmonies come right back.

Eli

It is often overlooked, but the Byzantine-Ruthenian Metropolia in the USA has a strong tradition of harmonized choral liturgical music - just a few days ago was the first anniversary Liturgy for the repose of Daniel Kavka, who for many years directed one of the finest church choirs on the East Coast. Choral music is not at all foreign to this tradition.

Back in the Old Country, I attended a lovely choir festival in the nineties - and the choir of the Greek-Catholic Cathedral in Uzhhorod walked off with the first prize (and richly deserved that prize, may I say at once).

Fr. Serge

I've been reflecting on this since I wrote the above response to Helen's post; and I have been growing uneasy in my conscience. What if it's not true ? I'm not implying that Helen or her source lied, but what if the information was just wrong ? And, if it is true, what good are we doing about it ? Either way, I think we ought to be praying for our bishops. And, before posting more negative items about them, I think we should give our bishops the benefit of the doubt.

-- John

I didn't suggest that there was any necessity, or even reason, to flood the parishioners anywhere with a lot of new material, especially not all at once. Pick a simple piece, find three or four who don't mind learning it, and then practice it with the congregation. If you've picked the right piece, it will work (for a sample, try the Byzantine [Greek] tone for the Third Stasis of the Lamentations at Orthros of Holy Saturday (usually done Good Friday night). It's a guaranteed winner.

As with many things, patience and a peaceful, non-coercive approach can often work wonders. For that matter, incidentally, the same approach is good for reviving something that actually is prostopinije but has passed out of use in a given parish (or maybe was never used there to begin with).

Fr. Serge

It's funny but I never hear this mentioned by our current "schooled" cantors. I asked a friend once to ask if they ever heard of Doc Pauly and I got resounding silence. I am spelling by sound not sight but even still how hard can it be?

Eli

Pauley. Wilkes-Barre. St. Mary's. Studied under Bortnyansky's kid. Great Cantor. He and Danny Kavka were the best we had after Roman died.

There was a great deal of ink spilled here recently over whether or not the Novus Ordo was going to be an imepediment to renewed communion with Orthodoxy. Nearly all comers said there would be some negative impact as things stand.

So now it is too far fetched to say the same about an Inclusive Language liturgy in an eastern Catholic Church?

You generally offer a benefit of doubt where there is one. This liturgy has taken years and years to bring to its present state. It is no accident that it was tested in Passaic and it is no accident period. It is quite a calculated piece of unnecessary word-work, for even Father David suggests that it will not last as is.

Stunning.

Eli

So how is it that their legacy apparently has hit a stone wall? They might as well not have existed. We needed to import someone to teach us how to be Ruthenian?

Eli