Dear Brethren in Christ,

I am starting this thread so that we may brainstorm ideas on how to resist the Modernist, Offensive Parts of the NEW Liturgy. Please respnd with your ideas. I will post several of my ideas now, after a bit of a "disclaimer type" paragraph regarding the first idea.

First of all, I believe that we Byzantine Catholics have really done ourselves, our Bishops, our Monastics, our Clergy, our potential Clergy (Vocations), potential coverts, and most of all our God a great disservice by lack of monetary giving. Our lack of monetary giving has greatly aided our lack of evangelization and our Church Closings. Our lack of Monetary giving has also taken away much? most? all? of our bargaining power with our Bishops. It seems the only way our Bishops can get any money out of us is by seizing our Parish bank accounts and selling our Churches. I usually do not agree when the Bishops do this, however they probably would not forcefully take our Churches and Bank Accounts if we gave our Parishes and Eparchies the money that they our due in the first place.

Here our some of my brainstormes (obviously far from perfect) resistance ideas:

1.) Idea #1 has a great deal to do with my paragraph on our failure as Christians at Christian Stewardship. This failure, unfortunately gives us little credibility in implementing my idea #1. My idea #1 is to send very substantial, VOIDED checks to our Eparchies for their respective Eparchial Appeals. Included with the VOIDED Checks we would include a very regretful letter explaining why we VOIDED our checks and wrote new Checks to another, Religious Organisation, perhaps to a ROCOR Monastery. Unfortunately our past shamefully small giving to our Eparchial appeals takes away much of the bargaining power of this tactic, however I think it would still have some impact. Particularly from young Orthodox Catholics fresh out of College/technical school, etc. that are serious about being good stewards and will actually write substantial checks to their parishes and Eparchies.

2.) Refuse to recite the Modernist parts of the Liturgy in the peoples part. For example, if a Modernist Troparion says, "Because You are Gracious and Love Humankind, Us all, etc." We could sing "Because You are Gracious and Love Mankind!" Our Priests may lose their jobs for correcting their parts, however, I doubt the Laity will lose their jobs for Chanting Corrected versions.

3.) After the NEW Liturgy Books are published and distributed, Bring whiteout/ink pens/etc. to Church each Sunday and correct one book per week. For example cross out or white out the "hu" to leave mankind. Unfortunately, at one point our poorly catechized Church members would cross out "Orthodox Christians," now we are afflicted with "Christians of the True Faith." Now it is our turn to make improvements.

Incogneats,

I think your ideas here for a "resistance movement" would only be counterproductive and may only add strength to the "perfect storm" which is starting to brew. I fear that if it goes uncontrolled or if its negative energy is not somehow diffused and turned by grace into something positive, it may lead to schism (once again) within or a large exodus from our Metropolia.

I think an authentic Christian posture to take is one of humble regard for the authority of our hierarchs coupled with a deeply felt passion for our tradition. Ecclesia is not the place for methods of socio-political resistance, including vandalism of property and other acts of protest. All these activities do is to generate hostility and create an environment where Christian fraternal dialogue becomes impossible.

Have you asked your spiritual father about what you are proposing? Do you even have a spiritual father?

My advice is to channel your passion into prayer and discernment of what to do. "Zeal for your house consumes me" should not in any way be confused with "burning down the house"!

Christianity is the great resistance movement against the gates of hell...and the battle is within (our own "middle earth" if you will). If you must resist, do it on your knees. "We battle not against flesh and blood, but against the powers and principalities of darkness." Without that type of prayerful discernment, any other type of protest is pure prelest.

Gordo

Incog...,

I do understand your frustration but your response will only be perceived as cynical. I agree with Gordo. I would add, come to the August conference if the Lord should grant us that opportunity, that is being put together as we write and pray.

CDL

A word of warning:

There are two tried-and-proven-worthless techniques which people are tempted to try again in painful situations:

a) boycott the Church;

b) stop giving money.

DO NOT GIVE IN TO THESE TEMPTATIONS!

If you go away, you surrender. The position you want is:

We are NOT going away; we come to Church faithfully, we support the Church financially and in other ways, and this is what we require!

It's much more effective!

Serge Keleher

Bravo Father!

Excellent advice! Change can only be effected from within and not by those outside.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

We should refrain from using the word "modernist" to describe anything new that we don't like. Modernism is an error about the nature of revelation, as described in the 1907 encyclical of St. Pius X, Pascendi Dominici Gregis.

Dear folks,

Rather than indulging in a tantrum and holding back your generous tithe, tactics with which your shepherds are long familiar, why not try something really unique like doing the hard work of drawing up a systematic letter of concern, to be hand delivered to the Metropolia and taken simultaneously to Rome, with a systematically prepared Appendix or set of Appendices where the places of concern in the new Divine Liturgy are presented in a rank order of concern beginning with those things that run counter to Catholic theology and doctrine?

You can fly a messenger or even two to Rome for a day or so with what it would cost everybody to get together over a few beers at a faux conference.

You also need to know what has happened to any translations of the rest of our liturgical prayers. You need to know how the chant has been "revised."

And I would put "inclusive" language at the very BOTTOM of the list because you'll fix MOST of that when you go after false doctrine or bad theology contained in those tortured translations.

Any attempt to put a slogan forward to make it "easier" to rally round, will come back and smack you in the face. The resistance you are proposing requires more hard work than hot air and false promises.

The real problem here, lest you forget, is the fact that one bishop has inordinate influence over three others, including our Metropolitan. Loose sight of that and you've lost altogether. That kind of inordinate influence must be countered with hard cold theological, doctrinal and grammatical fact -in three languages- and the grace of God.

Eli

PS: "loose" is the voluntary plus-imperfect future for the verb meaning: If I can't find my glasses my brain doesn't work, and I can't talk on the phone either.

Eli

With hold funding! This is the advice giving by EWTN almost on a weekly bases.

1. I say, start with the Bishops Appeal. No more money! If churches close then perhaps it is better they close.


Why should I pay money so the Bishops can spend it on such things? How can the Bishops pay for pew books if they don't have the money to pay the printer?

Instead of giving your tithe to the Church give it to ACROD, a charity, to the Vatican directly, etc...

EWTN targets a robust youthful densely populated Church. Our people have starved the Church long enough as it is and nothing good has come of that, except that they are aging and still annoyed and in some ways neglected now, or abandoned as a reward for poor judgment in more robust times. So, at the risk of repeating myself:

Dear folks,

Rather than indulging in a tantrum and holding back your generous tithe, tactics with which your shepherds are long familiar, why not try something really unique like doing the hard work of drawing up a systematic letter of concern, to be hand delivered to the Metropolia and taken simultaneously to Rome, with a systematically prepared Appendix or set of Appendices where the places of concern in the new Divine Liturgy are presented in a rank order of concern beginning with those things that run counter to Catholic theology and doctrine?

Eli

To whom in Rome do you propose this letter should be delivered, when and how?

Serge Keleher

Dear friends,

Don’t expect Roma to tolerate a spirit of rebelliousness.

The Vatican would rather see the whole enterprise wilt on the vine and blow away in the wind than give in to threats or a schismatic tendency. Very few people (clerics included), outside of the Pittsburgh Metropolia would understand or care about the issues confronting you.

I have two suggestions:
(1) Wait to see how the new liturgical texts work out, it might be fine. I know that there are concerns but I guess I personally would have a lot more confidence in the new translation than most people.

(2) Be prepared to walk away from everything. This would mean leaving all the property behind and it is a very serious thing to contemplate. Organize an association and be prepared to found a new parish under the auspices of Johnstown or some other Orthodox hierarchy. It should never get to this point without first making an attempt to live with the new translation.

If you find that the issue has blown over satisfactorally you can gift any money you have raised to the parish.

+T+
Michael

Fr. Serge is quite right. You have more credibility with the higher ups if you remain good, faithful parishioners as opposed to being a disturber of the peace.

A real nice solution to this whole mess is that you can reconcile yourselves and come back to your UGC mother Church

But seriously, this whole situation and the prospect of contacting your hierarchs should be approached with prayer, respect, and cool heads. This is all from experience.

-uc

p.s. Never sign a letter to your hierarch as "Anonymous." It will be in the trash can quicker than the junk mail. Always sign your letters with your full name.

That's a very good question. One that probably could be answered once a letter and appendices are drafted. If the issues are substantial then there are several places that such a letter might go. My primary message was that any appeal to Rome should be done vis a vis, and one should not leave without a Protocol reference number from at least one of the curial offices.

Eli

How about a group of competent persons going to Rome to make their case?

Must have the brief together and tight before you can begin to make the case, or decide who to send to speak with whom, or how to get one's foot in the door, so to speak.

A conference won't get that. A conference will waste time, energy and material resources. By the time we are done conferring, we'll be a year into the new and improved liturgy and the Church will cry foul and claim, as they did in Canada, that to change now would be a hardship.

Better to make it apparent right here where we are headed and that we intend to get there in a timely fashion.

The "brief" could be prepared right here in front of God and everybody. There are sufficient human resources to do the deed and collect the words and formalize it into a clear presentation.

There should also be a letter with signatures. One letter sent to all parishes for signature, or signatures collected under a unified brief statement to be sent with a longer letter.

In this one the body must speak as well as representatives of the body.

Eli

To take a case anywhere one has to have a case. I want to see the new liturgy presented in the best possible way in the most fair venue. That is why there is a meeting in the making. Sure this should have happened at least a year ago, but it's not too late. Let us give the liturgy a fair reading at the conference now being planned for the near future. The liturgy isn't even available yet. How can one make a serious case for or against it until it is made.

Please, let us be calm. Let us get copies distributed. Let us examine it with the help of some people who can help us examine it together. In a few days we will have some details.

CDL

Skip the resistance movement! It’s not appropriate as spoken of in this thread.

The appropriate response here is prayer and fasting.

The bishops and the liturgical commission are not the enemy. The proper approach is to politely approach those in authority and again and again encourage them to lead us to a full celebration of all of our Divine Services according to our official books. When the path to what is right is the easiest that is the path that will be taken.

It appears the resistance has been resisted.

CDL

"It appears the resistance has been resisted.

CDL"

You just couldn't resist that one now could you?

Thank You all for your most valuable input!

The esteemed Administrator posted,
"Skip the resistance movement! It’s not appropriate as spoken of in this thread."

I hope the rest of this post (and thread) will be deemed respectful and appropriate by the Administrator and Moderators.

In my thread beginning post I stated,
"Here our some of my brainstormes (obviously far from perfect) resistance ideas:"

My ideas 1, 2, and 3 are merely brainstorm ideas. I offered these ideas in their negative forms. However, I think that there are positive ways of implementing the gist behind the same basic ideas. Here they are:

Negatively implemented Idea 1 said something about sending substantial, Voided checks in our Eparchial Appeals. Many posted that this is not a wise idea. That very well may be the case. However, How about sending valid, nonvoided substantial checks for our Eparchial Appeals with a note or letter stating that the NEW Liturgy is defective and that we would like a more Orthodox Liturgy?


Negatively implemented Idea 3 offered the idea to manually correct the Liturgy books with pens, whiteout, etc. I think that a positive way to implement the idea is to form a coalition of parishioners throughut the Metroplia that will offer to split the cost of printing and distributing Liturgy Books that are more faithful to the One True God, Our Fathers among the Saints Basil and John Chrysostom, and the Ruthenian Rescension.

Negatively implemented Idea 2 said something about refusing to chant inclusive language, but rather to correct the texts as we chant substututing "mankind" for "humankind" etc. I have yet to think of a more positive implementation for this basic idea. I do not see, how I could knowingly, in good conscious chant inclusive language. Any ideas for a better way of changing the situation?

Incog...,

Thank you for you positive alternatives. They may well be the alternatives left to us. I hope the alternative of a conference beforehand would help to shape a very useable liturgy so that this can be avoided. If the commission avoids such a conference as proposed I think the people must ask themselves what this says about their attitude toward the people. But if they will come to such a conference and explain to us step by step why the new recension is faithful and helpful and be willing to listen to the people and make the relatively minor changes that may be necessary then I think we have a catalyst for real spiritual growth.

The question is after 20 years of decline are our leaders up to the challenge. The one most significant element in a groups growth or decline rests with the leadership of the group. Am I allowed to say that?

Will the leadership rise to the challenge? Or will they hide away? Stay tuned.

CDL

Agreed wholeheartedly! Drawing togethere a document that systematically addresses specific and substantive concerns is not an act of rebellion any more than any other doctrinal or theological treatise is, and should not really be addressed as rebellion and or resistance or untutored or unrestrained mob action.

The fact remains that whatever any group within the Church does to express its frustration, as you said in another post yesterday that you were perhaps doing, is going to be perceived as rebellion.

One of the things that the preparation of a document does is channel that non-productive frustration into an act that results in an objectively productive and useful document that can then be presented to authorities in the Church who have real power and authority to act, or not to act as they choose, but at that rate the choices will be clear to all.

Eli

A conference in August in Chicago allows us to do that. We would very much like representatives of the commission there to present the recension as so far developed. I pray they don't let us down.

CDL

Any conference will have limited attendance under the best of circumstances and will not be representative of the body of the Church. Planning for a "conference" will take time and energy which will make it more difficult to act in a timely fashion.

You don't even know the status of the printing of the new liturgy, nor do you have knowledge of the new music, nor of the rest of the liturgical changes outside of the Divine Liturgy.

You convene a conference without a solid document in place and you've gotten face time for a few and a chance to tip a few brews. And that is all you've got.

Eli

The Admin and I must agree to disagree. The only recourse the laity have is to withhold funding.

Actually you are in total and absolute disagreement with anyone who can see the irreversable damage that has already been done in the Church by exercising this fiscal tactic in anger, in frustration, in rebellion, makes no difference the cause.

Not even our bishops could reverse that damage if they wanted to and were willing to give their lives to do so.

Your's is the worst of all possible bad solutions.

Eli

Our laity are not entirely innocent either. There is much to be desired and for some, clergy and laity, it is too late for this world. And that is all I wish to say of that.

You are doing a severe disservice with your one-sided foment, and that is precisely the kind of advisement that will make truly constructive action, ultimately, impossible.

Eli

Eli,

I appreciate your opinion and I value your constructive criticism, however I am not convenence the later is not the best course of action. We will have to agree to disagree.

Your friend in IC XC
ray

A parish needs to add 6% to the core worshipping community every year in order to grow.

If you normally have about 70 laypersons in attendance, you will need to add four or five new committed worshippers this coming year to make up for losses and minimally grow.

If you normally have 200 laypersons in attendance, you will need to add twelve this coming year. There is no getting around it. (More is better, of course.)

Personally, I think it would be preferable if these new members were converts from Protestantism, agnosticism and atheism but more than likely they will have to be Latins who transfer in because Eastern Christians in North America don’t seem to have much of a knack for evangelism.

Why do I mention this here? Because if a parish is not already meeting these goals it is on the decline, and must eventually reverse the trend or close, that is the reality. Negative publicity and squabbling is going to leave a bad impression on the community at large. This is not good for the overall health of the church.

That means it may no longer matter what the text of the liturgy is like. This could be like rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship.

+T+
Michael

Yep!!! Anen!!!

Michael,

The ship has been sinking for years. With the actions of the heirarchy they have already declared death to the Church. Rather than focus on evangelization they would rather push for Liturgical agendas.

Like the old saying, "Actions speak louder than words." The heirarchy speaks of evangelization (in a small voice) yet their actions (i.e. Liturgical agendas, closing churches, etc...) speak volumes.

The ONLY way to safe this sinking ship is to convence the Bishops that nothing is more important than living out and spreading the Gospel. Until that happens you will continue to see double digit declining numbers until no one is left.

Carson daniel lauffer, Michael, etc... can't do this task on your own. You/I/we need support and direction from the top.

I would think that the change in the wording of Liturgical texts is an innovation. There are , as I have observed, those who wish to infiltrate the ecclesiastical structure. I know a man who became Orthodox from evangelical protestantism and was almost scandalized when he realized the little that those in his parish put in the offering plate. He was used to giving about 10% of his gross income. It is sorry to see the loss of a parish. I was told by former Byz Cath the he left to the RCC for the squabbling and contention, self absorption of his previous parish's people. This leaves me sad to hear this. Evangelicals think they score a great victory when they convert a Traditional Christian...RCC/Byz Cath/Orthodox... to their sects. Been there done that. May God have mercy on us, Mik

Are we going to be able to, in good conscience chant inclusive language?

If so, how? Why?

I would especially appreciate the input of our wonderful Clergy.

If priests got away with using "inclusive" language even though it had not been approved (such as at the Mt St Macrina and the Seminary) --and with impunity -- why can't a priest merely add the more correct wording, especially since the priest's prayers aren't supposed to be printed in the people's book?

A very good post !

I would add this:

We cannot give what we do not have. For Eastern Christians, that means theosis. As we practice theosis, evangelization naturally grows out of theosis. That kind of evangelization doesn't require a program from the hierarchy; it just requires the Gospel. Then, we can respond to whatever the local needs are in our local situations.

In sum, I think leadership for evangelization can only come most effectively from: first, in the human heart and by the grace of God and, second, at the parish level because that is where the needs for evangelization are and that is where the (potential) evangelizers are.

-- John

Has anyone leased or purchased any newspaper, magazine, or billboard advertising near any of the Cathedrals?

Perhaps a big "Glory to Jesus Christ!
Restore the Ruthenian Rescension!"
Billboard may aid the anti evil Liturgy campaign.

Anyone got any money?

Because someone will call the bishop [sound familiar?] and then the bishop will call Father and give him a direct order, or some variation of that through the chain of command [most likely it will not be a written order for there's nothing worse than a paper trail at tribunal time], then Father will try again to do the right thing, and someone will call the bishop [sound familiar?] and in cases of rebellious disobedience a priest may have his faculties removed and be removed from his parish or any position in the diocese and the bishop may refuse to release that priest so that he cannot legitimately go anywhere else, refuse to pay him, take his health insurance away and forefit his pension.

Are you prepared to take in and support all disobedient priests trying to do the right thing by his flock?

Which of his parishoners took in Father Dan or any of the priests in the Metropolia who were cut adrift over the long 20th century? Can you even name any of them? Do you have enough information to even begin to sift the just cases from the unjust cases?

THAT is why Father cannot simply "do the right thing."

When are we going to wake up to the reality that our canonical codes presume that the soul at the top of the chain of command is pure, and that has not proved to be the case in this country in any rite that I can think of at the moment. Well...maybe the Melkites and ACROD. But that is a very sad truth that is most often ignored, and anyone who says it is suspect at very least.

Eli

"Anyone got any money?"

Not Yet, but hopefully in the next couple of months that will change.

Anyone have any ideas on the prices to lease or purchase billboards near the Cathedrals?

Interesting post. And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with it. But I am curious: (1) What do you propose, practically, for the Church overall as the solution to this problem ? (2) What, specifically, do you propose to the priests who are caught in this situation ?

-- John

Jesus Himself didn't know what to do with the Pharisees, and they were instrumental in his passion and death, for he spoke against them in the assembly.

So I only know that if enough die, spiritually, materially and phycically, someone will notice and there will, for a time, be redress. To do otherwise would be to become as those who are unjust for there is no perfect justice in man.

If I were the King of the Forest, I'd change the way that we elect bishops, I'd change the pool from which we elect them, and I'd change the law to establish a safe place for priests and laity to beg for vindication from an unjust judge.

Eli

Ok, this is from a latin (at least at the moment ) perspective...

I for one am done fighting liturgically. I have been doing it for years now and can't deal with it anymore. If I go into a latin parish and they have a big band, are singing modern praise songs, have no icons/statues, etc. I just leave. If I'm at a solid parish then I will do what I can to fight for it, financially or otherwise, but I just can't deal with the abuse anymore.

I have a few evangelism ideas:
1. Books -- Walk into a Borders and you see "Triumph", "Catholic Matters", etc. You can pick it up and read about the latin church. It would be nice to have some comparable Byzantine stuff.
2. Go to inter-Catholic/Christian events. Why not have an Eastern priest go to Theology on Tap? Maybe he could give a talk? Most people there are probably not even familiar with the East. College age kids can attend something like Inter Varsity Christian fellowship and reach out to protestants.
3. Web sites -- This is a great site, but let's see some more apologists running around a la Dave Armstrong. I think Todd bounces around to a bunch of boards and gets the word out. Perhaps some folks could start blogs, maybe even get an award or two so people take notice.

Each of these seems relatively low-cost and useful. Just some thoughts...

Matt

I am not familiar with Catholic Canon Law, but in the Orthodox Church, if a bishop espouses, teaches or implements heresy, it is incumbent upon the priesthood to disregard his teachings and for the Church to depose him him. Now not having seen this new translation, I really cannot comment, other than to say that "Chelovekolyubets" translates as "Lover of mankind." Now if this translation contain errors that are heretical in nature, you do have precedence to fix it. But please don't fall into the sin of Congregationalism and assume to tell the Bishops what to do. Present your viewpoints from within the Church RESPECTFULLY! Have a priest who is sympathetic with your cause review the texts for errors. No priest, worthy of the title will espouse heresy, whether they take his pension or no. Likewise, no bishop wants to be deposed as a heretic. It sounds like all parties have to sit back, look at the proposed changes and civilly discuss what exactly is being proposed and is it correct.
The Russian Church in this country had been infected with the sin of Congrgationalism in 1948, and it resulted in a Church wide schism.

Alexandr

Sorry, I wrote 1948 and it was really 1946.

Alexandr