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#218318 - 01/01/07 01:00 AM Re: global warming [Re: byzanTN]
Stephanos I Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 2514
Loc: West Coast
Bah Humbug! To global warming. Anyone who has studied climatic changes through the course of history knows that the last little ice age took only 20 years to come about.
NO AUTOS AROUND THEN TO BLAME IT ON!NO POLLUTING INDUSTRIES!
While I dont support those prophets of doom, still I think we should be responsible stewards of creation.
Dont get too wrapped up at least yet!
(Sorry for the pun)
Stephanos I
The Little Ice Age that descended on Europe in the 1300's happened because of cyclical occurances. The glaciers of eastern Greenland started to melt causing the ocean temperatures to rise since fresh water is lighter than salt water, and this caused the gulf stream to be altered. So you see nothing new under the heavens.

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#218334 - 01/01/07 05:16 AM Re: global warming [Re: Stephanos I]
Orthodox Pyrohy Offline
Forum Keilbasa Sleuth
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 1502
Loc: In the Alleghenies, the mother...
Dandelions are a non-native invasive species from Europe. Also, different trees bud at different times and each one is different, and so on, and according to the geographic location to that species.

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#218430 - 01/02/07 03:19 PM Re: global warming [Re: Stephanos I]
Porter Offline
Member

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2444
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Stephanos I
Bah Humbug! To global warming. Anyone who has studied climatic changes through the course of history knows that the last little ice age took only 20 years to come about.
NO AUTOS AROUND THEN TO BLAME IT ON!NO POLLUTING INDUSTRIES!
While I dont support those prophets of doom, still I think we should be responsible stewards of creation.
Dont get too wrapped up at least yet!
(Sorry for the pun)
Stephanos I
The Little Ice Age that descended on Europe in the 1300's happened because of cyclical occurances. The glaciers of eastern Greenland started to melt causing the ocean temperatures to rise since fresh water is lighter than salt water, and this caused the gulf stream to be altered. So you see nothing new under the heavens.


Bless Fr. Stephanos,

That last paragraph throws new light on the matter for me. Thanks.

However, Bah Humbug, is what Scrooge says at Christmas, not New Years... biggrin Happy 2007.

Porter

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#218512 - 01/03/07 11:15 AM Re: global warming [Re: Porter]
Westerner Gone East Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Great Plains, U.S.A.
The best thing to do for our environment is to conserve as much as we can. The monasteries can be our teachers. Half of what we throw in the trash could serve as compost. Lots of things we throw can be re-used: at one monastery I was about to throw some plastic zip-lock bags in the trash, but a monk stopped me and told me they washed and re-used them. The amount of trash that some people produce is horrendous, and could be reduced.


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#218518 - 01/03/07 02:54 PM Re: global warming [Re: Westerner Gone East]
Krysostomos Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Pirkanmaa, Finland
If even George W. thinks nowadays - according to the breaking news - global warming is true, it simply must be true...

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#218519 - 01/03/07 02:58 PM Re: global warming [Re: Krysostomos]
Carson Daniel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/01
Posts: 5783
Loc: Walled Lake, Mi
This global warming stuff is certainly a tease. My spring flowers popped their little heads up here near Chicago after two weeks of unusually warm weather. Then I read about the blizzard in New Mexico. "Hey", thought I, "this global warming stuff isn't half bad. Maybe I won't have to move south. Maybe Chicago will become the sub tropical paradise I so long for." Alas and Alack! Yesterday it dropped below freezing.

What a disappointment!

CDL

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#218530 - 01/03/07 05:02 PM Re: global warming [Re: Carson Daniel]
harmon3110 Offline
Grateful
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 3446
Loc: Ohio, USA
I used to be really incredulous about global warming, regarding it as scare tactics and human-hating from the political left.

But the data over the years seems to indicate that something real is happening in nature, a real change in climate. Glaciers around the world are melting at an increasing rate and to an increasing extent. The Arctic and Antarctic ice is also melting more than it used to. There are reports of the permafrost melting in Alaska and Antarctica. Etc.

In my own experience, there have certainly been some cold winters in the last 30 years here in Ohio -- 1977, 1978 and 1999 come immediately to mind. But, the trend seems to be warmer winters. I still remember a foot of snow on the ground starting at the beginning of December and lasting till the end of February -- with plenty of cold temperatures and more snow throughout. That was normal thirty years ago in Ohio during winter. Now, it seems that we hardly get any snow (or we get a huge dump of snow in a blizzard), and it doesn't last long, and we often seem to get daytime temperatures at or above freezing -- instead of well below freezing. It's like an entire climate zone has shifted north and we're getting weather like they used to get in Kentucky.

I'm not a scientist, so I don't know the cause. But, from what I've heard and read, it seems that this trend of higher rates of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and increasing temperatures coincides with wide-spread industrialization around the world, especially in the last 50 years or so.

And, regardless of the cause, how do we cope ?

-- John

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#218531 - 01/03/07 05:06 PM Re: global warming [Re: Westerner Gone East]
harmon3110 Offline
Grateful
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 3446
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Westerner Gone East
The best thing to do for our environment is to conserve as much as we can. The monasteries can be our teachers. Half of what we throw in the trash could serve as compost. Lots of things we throw can be re-used: at one monastery I was about to throw some plastic zip-lock bags in the trash, but a monk stopped me and told me they washed and re-used them. The amount of trash that some people produce is horrendous, and could be reduced.




Indeed ! And, to take it a step further, we could reduce our consumption of stuff --and thus reduce the consumption of natural resources, reduce the amount of pollution, etc.-- if we would practice more self-discipline. We don’t need as much stuff as we buy and use. The asceticism of the Church could teach us a lot that makes good sense physically, financially, spiritually . . . and environmentally.

-- John

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#218562 - 01/03/07 11:02 PM Re: global warming [Re: harmon3110]
byzanTN Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 5317
Loc: Knoxville, TN
A book some might enjoy: "On Living Simply: the Golden Voice of John Chrysostom." It also says it is "A book of ancient Christian wisdom." It is not a left-leaning environmental text, but St. John does have some things to say about getting too attached to the world's goods.

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#218569 - 01/04/07 12:14 AM Re: global warming [Re: byzanTN]
Mr. Clean Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 544
Loc: Southwestern Pennsylvania
I wholeheartedly agree with using less and making use of things until they are worn out. My car has 157,000 miles on it, and I take the bus to work.

I just am not sold on global warming. I remember the "coming ice age" so frequently reported in the 1970s and it did not happen.

The Sun is far more powerful than any of us.

So, for that matter, is the Son.


Edited by Mr. Clean (01/04/07 12:15 AM)

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#218630 - 01/04/07 02:29 PM Re: global warming [Re: Mr. Clean]
harmon3110 Offline
Grateful
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 3446
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Mr. Clean


So, for that matter, is the Son.



Amen.

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#218631 - 01/04/07 02:31 PM Re: global warming [Re: byzanTN]
harmon3110 Offline
Grateful
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 3446
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: byzanTN
A book some might enjoy: "On Living Simply: the Golden Voice of John Chrysostom." It also says it is "A book of ancient Christian wisdom." It is not a left-leaning environmental text, but St. John does have some things to say about getting too attached to the world's goods.



Dear byzanTN,

Would you mind posting this also on the books forum ? It sounds like an interesting book, perhaps very interesting, and I would like to see what feeback others might have.

-- John

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#218632 - 01/04/07 03:05 PM Re: global warming [Re: Diak]
Deacon Robert Behrens Offline
Jessup B.C. Deacon
Member

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 1347
Loc: Jermyn, Pa.
Originally Posted By: Diak
As a geologist I can offer a bit of my own observations - strong evidence of drastic and short-term as well as gradual and longer-term climatic changes are both present historically in the fossil record. Even the magnetic field of the entire earth has switched over time (making the north magnetic pole actually the south for some time).

I remember in school in the 1970s the teachers talking about the coming "new ice age". Indeed the climate is changing, but what I don't buy is that it is entirely due to anthropogenic causes. The length of time of climate observations due to human influence is very, very limited, and even some of the earlier methods for collecting and recording data may be suspect.
Diak, Kansas Licensed Geologist #383


A few months ago, I read an article on the Drudge website quoting a Russian scientist (I forget which discipline)to the effect that what we are experiencing is the result of the sun heating up. He indicated that, cyclically, the sun will heat up, and then cool down. He cited prior "ice ages", such as that in Europe in the 1600's (?-I forget the exact time period), which were followed by warming periods. He did indicate that we are on the verge of another "ice age". He completely dismissed the possibility that use of our SUV's is creating Al Gore's vaunted "greenhouse effect". IMHO, the latter "theory" is propaganda being utilized to support an ideological agenda.

Dn. Robert

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#218636 - 01/04/07 03:30 PM Re: global warming [Re: harmon3110]
Deacon Robert Behrens Offline
Jessup B.C. Deacon
Member

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 1347
Loc: Jermyn, Pa.
Here is an article quoting the same expert I cited above. If this man is correct, we had better begin to stock up on thermal undergarments.
Dn. Robert

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/02/06/globalcold.shtml

Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012
Created: 06.02.2006 17:18 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 15:24 MSK

Starting from 2012, the process of global cooling will start on the Earth and by the middle of 21st century the whole planet will be captured by low temperatures, an expert from the Russian Sciences Academy Observatory was quoted by NewsRu.com as saying Monday.

The cause of the expected global cooling is a decrease in the flow of the Sun’s radiation, Khabibulo Absudamatov says.

“We have already witnessed a cooling of the kind in Europe, in North America and Greenland in 1645-1705, with canals freezing in Holland, and people abandoning settlements because of nearing glaciers in Greenland. This is what we are expecting again in some decades,” he said.

Analysis of the Sun’s radiation fluctuations that influence the climate on Earth shows that the planet at the moment is on the peak of the global warming process, Absudamatov said. Now, with the decrease in the Sun’s radiation, global temperatures are going to decrease, too.

“In 20th century, the Sun’s activity could be characterized by a general increase in the amount of radiated energy, and global warming was a result of this process. Global warming is by no means an anomaly, but a normal phenomenon. Global warmings, as well as global coolings, have happened before.”

According to Absudamatov, the global cooling will start in 2012 or 2013. By 2035 the Sun’s radiation will reach its minimum, and 15 years later a deep cooling of the Earth’s climate should be expected.

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#218640 - 01/04/07 03:45 PM Re: global warming [Re: Deacon Robert Behrens]
Carson Daniel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/01
Posts: 5783
Loc: Walled Lake, Mi
I think Gore had best plan his retirement to begin within five years. I had planned on staying in Chicago for the expected sub tropical climate changes. Maybe I'd better plan to move to Panama.

CDL


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