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#231855 - 04/24/07 05:10 PM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
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Junior Member
Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA PA
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Serge:
How can you call yourelf a Catholic and yet maintain that: "one is justified in leaving the Catholic Church and joining the Eastern Orthodox Church if, and only if, one is honestly convinced that this is the Will of God. In that event, Godspeed."
No one is ever justified in leaving the Catholic Church. Schismatics can not be saved.
Pope Eugene IV, Bull Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, ... and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation... No one...can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
I don't mean to be rude, but I must point out that you are encouraging souls to embrace error and damnation!
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#231860 - 04/24/07 05:31 PM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: dstan51]
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John
Member
Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 5900
Loc: Virginia
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Serge:
How can you call yourelf a Catholic and yet maintain that: "one is justified in leaving the Catholic Church and joining the Eastern Orthodox Church if, and only if, one is honestly convinced that this is the Will of God. In that event, Godspeed."
No one is ever justified in leaving the Catholic Church. Schismatics can not be saved.
Pope Eugene IV, Bull Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, ... and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation... No one...can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
I don't mean to be rude, but I must point out that you are encouraging souls to embrace error and damnation!
Essentially Pope John Paul II stated that it is not a matter of salvation if someone's conscience leads them out of full Catholic communion into Orthodoxy. Your presentation of Catholic Teaching is simply not accurate. The core of what he taught (indeed, what you can find in Catholic Teaching) is that the communion between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches is profound and very near complete, despite the issues which still keep us from being fully united.
Pope John Paul II clearly would have stated that Pope Eugene IV's statement considered the Orthodox to be part of the Catholic Church. This should be clear to anyone who has read anything he has written on the subject.
Feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum to ask questions about this topic. Please do not discuss this topic here as this is not an appropriate forum for that discussion.
Administrator
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#231861 - 04/24/07 05:32 PM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: dstan51]
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Member
Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 2436
Loc: The Third Rome
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Serge:
How can you call yourelf a Catholic and yet maintain that: "one is justified in leaving the Catholic Church and joining the Eastern Orthodox Church if, and only if, one is honestly convinced that this is the Will of God. In that event, Godspeed."
No one is ever justified in leaving the Catholic Church. Schismatics can not be saved.
Pope Eugene IV, Bull Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, ... and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation... No one...can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
I don't mean to be rude, but I must point out that you are encouraging souls to embrace error and damnation! Whoa!, whoa! , right there newbie dstan51. Might I suggest that you lay off the caffeine, take a deep breath, and consider apologizing to Archmandrite Serge Keleher, a world reknown and highly respected Ukrainian CATHOLIC priest, who you saw fit to reprimand. May I ask what diocese you are bishop of that you so easily reprimand a priest? Oh, and while you're at it, you also might want to consider apologizing to all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum that you felt so comfortable in labeling heretics and schismatics. Gotta love some of these more Catholic than the Pope types! Alexandr the heretic and schismatic
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#231873 - 04/24/07 06:03 PM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 5599
Loc: Dublin
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Perhaps we should organize a collection and have a medal struck with the inscription "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus" on one side and a portrait of Boniface VIII, holding his bull Unam Sanctam on the other.
Fr. Serge
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#231884 - 04/24/07 07:18 PM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Catholic Gyoza
Member
Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 4506
Loc: The Most Corrupt State
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Serge:
How can you call yourelf a Catholic and yet maintain that: "one is justified in leaving the Catholic Church and joining the Eastern Orthodox Church if, and only if, one is honestly convinced that this is the Will of God. In that event, Godspeed."
No one is ever justified in leaving the Catholic Church. Schismatics can not be saved.
Pope Eugene IV, Bull Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, ... and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation... No one...can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
I don't mean to be rude, but I must point out that you are encouraging souls to embrace error and damnation! Whoa!, whoa! , right there newbie dstan51. Might I suggest that you lay off the caffeine, take a deep breath, and consider apologizing to Archmandrite Serge Keleher, a world reknown and highly respected Ukrainian CATHOLIC priest, who you saw fit to reprimand. May I ask what diocese you are bishop of that you so easily reprimand a priest? Oh, and while you're at it, you also might want to consider apologizing to all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum that you felt so comfortable in labeling heretics and schismatics. Gotta love some of these more Catholic than the Pope types! Alexandr the heretic and schismatic "The Heretic and Schismatic" Alexandr ONCE AGAIN has defended the Catholic Church and her priests. And I want to publicly thank him for it. That's 2 I owe him. I wish I would have been part of the other topic that closed before I read it to defend Orthodoxy. Dr. Eric
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#231887 - 04/24/07 08:06 PM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: spdundas]
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Member
Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 5153
Loc: somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
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To me, being in communion is to be inside of TRUE APOSTOLIC CHURCH that Christ established. Catholic & Orthodox being an Apostolic Church. Not based on the Pope only and all alone.
SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine Shane, That was not the point the pope was making either. In fact, no pope has ever taken that position. Gordo
Edited by ebed melech (04/24/07 08:19 PM)
Edit Reason: a missing letter
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#231895 - 04/24/07 08:55 PM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: ebed melech]
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Member
Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 5223
Loc: Knoxville, TN
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There's a book for children - what else would you expect from a school librarian - that describes whether or not I have left because of the RDL. It's titled, "I'm Still Here in the Bathtub." I'm not going anywhere.
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#231948 - 04/25/07 10:25 AM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: Fr Serge Keleher]
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Member
Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: New York
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Perhaps we should organize a collection and have a medal struck with the inscription "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus" on one side and a portrait of Boniface VIII, holding his bull Unam Sanctam on the other.
Fr. Serge  I happen to be a very visual learner, Father, and that is some picture I'd say! Holding his bull...eh? Must be an Irish euphemism!! Mary
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#231961 - 04/25/07 11:24 AM
Re: How many have left?
[Re: Elijahmaria]
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Member
Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 58
Loc: usa
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"I have heard from third party information (which may or may not be correct) that on a typical Sunday only about 60-80 people show up for Liturgy at the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist."
Ray,
This may sound like a major exodus of people to some, but in reality we have to ask ourselves in just how many parishes is 60-80 on a Sunday the norm? There are a few exceptions of course, and no parish can afford to lose even one, but the statement "only about 60-80' may not reflect much of a change from what the parishes had pre-liturgical changes.
Just an observation from up north in old country...
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