Many have asked what OCA and ACROD think of the Revised Divine Liturgy.

But I'm wondering if there has been any reaction from our brothers in Uzhhorod about the textual revisions and the music?

Any comment from Lviv ?

L'viv (or more precisely, Kyiv-Halych): the Synod recently issued a statement reminding everyone of the obligation to serve according to the Ordo Celebrationis. As to abbreviations, everyone is at liberty to serve the complete Divine Liturgy - and this is commonly done - but the abbreviations authorized by the Fourth Synod in Patriarch Joseph's time are permitted, although not required (I use those abbreviations myself - once a year).

I'm unaware of anyone in the Church of Kyiv-Halych getting particularly involved in the discussion of what the revised Liturgy of the Pittsburgh Metropolia does with/to Protopinije; I myself prefer to leave that aspect of the matter to those who actually use that chant regularly and whose expertise on it is greater than mine.

Incidentally, the Church of Kyiv-Halych does not forbid the use of Church-Slavonic, and encourages the daughter Churches in diaspora to make some use of the local languages; Patriarch Lubomyr stressed this point in a recent visit to the USA.

Christ is Risen!

Fr. Serge

I don't think they care. In the Prjashev Eparchy, they now force the use of the literary Slovak in the liturgy and it really corrupts the original Prostopinije music. When I visited Prjashev or Kosice Greek Catholic parishes, I made sure I attended the Church Slavonic liturgies becaue I knew I could sing along. I don't know what goes on in Apostolic Administrator Shasik's Mukachevo Eparchy, but I know they use Ukrainian in all Eparchial newspapers and correspondence. When in Uzhorod, I attended liturgies in Orthodox Churches and they still use both the Church Slavonic and Prostopinije in their litugies.

Ungcsertezs

The Mukachevo Greek Catholic Eparchy is probably more interested in figuring out how to sing Prostopinije in Ukrainian:

http://www.mgce.uz.ua/ukr/news.php?id=20

Dave

Nice web-site; thanks! It seems that in many parishes in Transcarpathia the Divine Liturgy and other services remain in Church-Slavonic except for Scripture readings and sermons. But gradually the vernacular language (yes, that does mean Ukrainian) is making progress, which presumably means that Prostopinije is being adapted to it.

Fr. Serge

What is the common spoken language of Rusyn people in Eastern Slovakia and Western Ukraine?

Aside from the issue of having a distinct Rusyn identity subsumed in to a another one, is there a problem with Prostopinije being sung in Ukrainian or Slovak?

Yes, Prostopinije was notated according to Church Slavonic which has longer syallables and words than literary Slovak and Ukrainian. The muisc won't sound the same, just as the English Prostopinije never sounds like the Church Slavonic original.

Xpucmoc Bockpece!

Ungcsertezs

Dear Ungcsertezs,

That's one reason to find a balance between fiercely abbreviating the melodies (as was done in the 1960's) and singing every note, even if that means repeating English words and phrases over and over (as was done by OTHER cantors in the 1960's ).

When I started using the Matins canons before Liturgy at a previous parish (with the blessing of Metropolitans Judson and Nicholas), many many times I had older parishioners come up and tell me that they REMEMBERED the irmos melodies (and sometimes began singing the English texts to them the next week). So it is possible, with work, to keep the particular genius of a chant form like prostopinije in a modern language.

Voistinnu voskhrese!

Jeff

It's worth-while to remember that Church-Slavonic is not the original language of the printed Prostopinije; it first appeared in Hungarian.

Fr. Serge

But the parishes were singing in Church Slavonic, whether you transcribe it using Cyrillic characters or the Magyarized Latin characters. The truly Magyarized Rusyn Greek Catholics introduced the use of the Magyar language without Apostolic approval.

Ungcsertezs

They did indeed use an adaptation of Magyar phonetics for a time. But after a while, modified Slovak phonetics became stylish. This has nothing to do with either music or the Revised Divine Liturgy, and precious little to do with present-day Uzhhorod.

Fr. Serge

Ung...

Please explain...my understanding is in the East we utilize the language of the people...like Sts. Cyril & Methodious did...(as opposed to the Latins who required Latin to be utilized up until Vatican II) I don't understand what approval was necessary...

Chris

There's a whole chapter on the comedy of errors regarding the use of Hungarian in Cyril Korolevsky's book Living Languages in Catholic Worship. The whole book is well worth reading, but this chapter is hilarious.

Christ is Risen!

Fr. Serge

I can only imagine...being that I don't know if there is a hungarian word less than 5 syllables

Job,

At the turn of the century (1900), over 90% percent of the Mukachevo Eparchy claimed a East Slavic(Rusyn) identity. In fact, Bishop Julius Firczak always defended the Slavic heritage of his Eparchy, even though the Hungarian government was forcing a Magyar culture on every citizen of Hungary. Those Rusyns (clergy and people) who accepted the Magyarization were the instigators in replacing the the Church Slavonic language in the Divine Liturgy. Rome did not approve of the introduction of Hungarian as a liturgical language. The Magyarized Ruysn Greek Catholics did it anyway and this led to the creation of seperate Hungarian Greek Catholic parishes which were in fact former Rusyn Greek Catholics parishes. So this use of a "vernacular" wasn't an organic development, merely a result of political ethnic assimilation.

Foldamatt Krisztus!

Ungcsertezs (MagyarOrosz)

Valoban Foltamadt!

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear in my question...why would we have needed Rome to approve something which was clearly in our tradition...worship in the language of the people...it would have been "organic" to the 10% that were ethnically hungarian...The ethnically hungarian parishes in the USA were utilizing english in the DL long before the Slavs did (at least that has been the understanding that has been brought to my attention...anyway don't want to take this thread too far off the path...

Valoban Foldamatt!!!

Chris

The Eparchy was Slavic speaking, so Church Slavonic was a close enough vernacular.

Xpucmoc Bockpece!

U-C

U-C,

You forget that some members of the Eparchy were former Calvinist Hungarians so the Eparchy was Slavic and Hungarian.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I doubt that the number of "Calvinists" was the great in Uzh, Bereg and Ugocha counties. Now in Spis, Saris and Zemplen counties, there were ethnic Roman Catholic Slovaks who became Calvinist but then decided the wanted to come back to the Catholic Church. They weren't accepted back by the Slovak Roman Catholics so they became Greek Catholic. Their descendants are really the only true Slovak Greek Catholics.

Xpucmoc Bockpece!

Ungcsertezs

Ung Certez,
Valoban Föltamádt!

Thank you for your comments.

I had understood that the reason the Rusyn people in the Hungarian section of the Austria-Hungarian Empire introduced Hungarian into the Divine Liturgy was the edict in 1868 (from the Emperor in Vienna) which "Magyar-ized" Hungary.

The Carpatho-Rusyn language was forbidden by the legal authorities, and the liturgy and other divine services were required to be translated into Hungarian. I believe the Rusyn texts were ordered to be destroyed.

My grandfather was born in Zemplen County in 1876, and grew up with the Hungarian liturgy. As many people living in lands closly boardering other countries, he was also fluent in Ukranian, Slovak, Polish and German.

From that point forward it was illegal to own/use books in Rusyn.
You seem to place this event much later, in the early 1900's.
I would appreciate any information you have to clarify this.

Deacon El

Hungarianized parishes began to appear in the 1870's.
Here's a quote from Fr. Pekar's book "The History of the Church in Carpathian Rus' pgs.91-92.

{3. The Introduction of Hungarian into the Liturgy

As mentioned earlier, the bulwark of religious and cultural life of the Carpatho-Rusyns were their Church with its national traditions-the Slavonic language and the Cyrillic alphabet. For this reason, in their determination to magyarize all of Carpathian Rus', the Hungarians did not hesitate to undermine these bastions of Carpatho-Rusyn identity. In short, they decided to liquidate the Slavonic alphabet and inroduce Hungarian into the liturgy.

Attempts to introduce Hungarian as the language of the liturgy date from the 1860's. In 1863, a group so-called Hungarian Greek Catholics gathered in Hajdugorog under the leadership of the magyarized army lieutant, Lajos Farkas. They sent a memorandum to Bishop Vasylij Popovich (1873-1864) demanding that Hungarian be used in the liturgy. Bishop Popovich had been persecuted ealier by the government for his "populist convictions," and in order to avoid new difficulties with authorities, he sent this memorandum on to Rome. In the meantime, on November 11, 1863, he strictly forbade the use of the Hungarian language in the liturgy until such time as the Apostolic See gave its unequivocal approval. The Hungarian patriots were not satisfied with the bishop's decision. They were well aware that under the circumstances the Apostolic See would never agree to the magyarization of the Church, despite the vigorous support this measure had from the Hungarian government and press. But even though Hungary's ruling circles paid little heed to Carpatho-Rusyn feelings, Rome could not allow the Hungarians to use the Church for their purely political ends. And so, on December 7, 1866, the Apostolic See issused a resolution "strictly forbidding the Hungarian liturgy."}

I suggest reading Fr. Pekar's book, as he documents well the way Hungarian was instroduced, leading to the creation of Hungarianized Greek Catholic parishes in Carpathian-Rus'.

Xpucmoc Bockpece!

Ungcsertezs

U-C,

Fr Ron Roberson reports:

"In the 18th century a number of Hungarian Protestants became Catholic and chose the Byzantine rite, again adding to the number of Byzantine Catholics in Hungary. They were placed under the jurisdiction of non-Hungarian Byzantine bishops.

Once this community of Greek Catholics was integrated into Hungarian society, some began to press for the use of the Hungarian language in the liturgy. But such a proposal was resisted by the church authorities. For this reason, the first Hungarian translation of the liturgy of John Chrysostom had to be published privately in 1795. In the 19th century several other liturgical books were published in Hungarian, but their use was still not approved by the ecclesiastical authorities.

A watershed in the history of this community took place in 1900, when a large group of Greek Catholic Hungarians went to Rome on pilgrimage for the Holy Year. They presented Pope Leo XIII with a petition asking him to approve the use of Hungarian in the liturgy and to create a distinct diocese for them. The question was discussed at length both at the Holy See and in Budapest, and finally on June 18, 1912, Pope Pius X erected the diocese of Hajdúdorog for the 162 Hungarian-speaking Greek Catholic parishes. But the use of Hungarian was limited to non-liturgical functions: the liturgy was to be celebrated in Greek and the clergy were given three years to learn it. World War I intervened, however, and the requirement to use Greek was never enforced. In the 1930s the rest of the necessary liturgical books were published in Hungarian."
http://www.cnewa.org/ecc-bodypg-us.aspx?eccpageID=76&IndexView=toc

Fr. Deacon Lance

Any figures on how many "Reformatus Magyars" became Greek Catholic? What villages were they from? Pocs,Hajdudorog,Berehovo, Nyiregyhaza?

Another quotefrom Fr. Pekar's "The History of The Church in Carpathian Rus'"

p.93-94

"On the advice of the papal nuncio in Vienna, The Apostolic See did not respond to the Central Committee's memorandum of 1900. At the same time, the nuncio informed the confused bishops that although the Apostolic See continued to prohibt the use of Hungarian in the liturgy, it would 'not insist' on the strict adherence to this ban.

Knowing that Rome was willing to tolerate the use of Hungarian in the liturgy the Hungarians began a campaign to magyarize the rite as well. The Carpatho-Rusyns, citing the resolution of Rome, decided to fight:'We will die before we give up our Slavonic liturgy,' they wrote in their protest. However, both Carpatho-Rusyn bishops remained on the sidelines of the struggle. It was the faithful who protested to the Hungarian primate, to the government, to Rome, and they even appealed to the Greek Catholic Metropolitan Andrej Sheptyc'kyj of Galicia. Finally, in 1909, Rome ordered Hungary's primate, Kolos Vaszary (1891-1912),'to respect the earlier decrees'of the Apostolic See concerning the Hungarian liturgy. However, not only did the primate fail to put a stop to the magyarization of the liturgy, he actually encouraged the use of Hungarian in the liturgy."

Xpucmoc Bockpece!

U-C