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#234590 - 05/14/07 10:18 AM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Ung-Certez]
Deacon El Offline
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Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 572
Loc: Centreville VA
Christ is Risen!
If they actually view themselves as a Deanery, then they may have more problems than a book translating the Divine Liturgy will solve.
In the Metropolia, the normal reference is to Syncellates.
However, if the dwindling resources are the overreaching problem, then my prayers are with these people as they express the liturgy to the best of their abilities.
Deacon El

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#234592 - 05/14/07 10:28 AM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Deacon El]
Elijahmaria Offline
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Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Deacon El
Christ is Risen!
If they actually view themselves as a Deanery, then they may have more problems than a book translating the Divine Liturgy will solve.
In the Metropolia, the normal reference is to Syncellates.


What are you talking about here?

Mary

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#234599 - 05/14/07 11:12 AM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Elijahmaria]
Elijahmaria Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Elijahmaria
Originally Posted By: Deacon El
Christ is Risen!
If they actually view themselves as a Deanery, then they may have more problems than a book translating the Divine Liturgy will solve.
In the Metropolia, the normal reference is to Syncellates.


What are you talking about here?

Mary


I suppose I could surmise safely here.

Let me ease your mind, Deacon, concerning the ignorance of the folk.

In the 75th Anniversary Directory, in the Administrative Index for each Eparchy one finds a whole list of priests under the heading: Elected DEANERY Representatives. [emphasis mine]

Do you happen to know when that changed?

Mary

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#234680 - 05/14/07 05:08 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Elijahmaria]
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content
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Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3811
Loc: Washington, PA
1990 and the Code of Canon of the Eastern Churches. Although the equivalent eastern term for deanery is protopresbytery not a syncellate. The difference is protopresbyteries are geographic, syncellates are for specific groups: religous, clergy, laity of a specific nationality, etc. It is one of the useless Easternizations found in the Code: Eparchy=Diocese, Vicar General=Protosyncellus, Deanery=Protopresbytery
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#234683 - 05/14/07 05:25 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
Elijahmaria Offline
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Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance
1990 and the Code of Canon of the Eastern Churches. Although the equivalent eastern term for deanery is protopresbytery not a syncellate. The difference is protopresbyteries are geographic, syncellates are for specific groups: religous, clergy, laity of a specific nationality, etc. It is one of the useless Easternizations found in the Code: Eparchy=Diocese, Vicar General=Protosyncellus, Deanery=Protopresbytery



See Deacon El's comments below. He apparently was unaware.

I was puzzled by his somewhat caustic comments when he apparently did not, in fact, know better.

One should be sparing with snide criticism until one checks the facts. I ought to know. Now I double check.

That is a part of what makes me such a colossal pain in the nether regions. smile

Although Jeff did catch me in one last week or the week before...hmmmm.

Mary

Quote:
Christ is Risen!
If they actually view themselves as a Deanery, then they may have more problems than a book translating the Divine Liturgy will solve.

In the Metropolia, the normal reference is to Syncellates.

Deacon El


Edited by Elijahmaria (05/14/07 05:27 PM)

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#234737 - 05/15/07 09:28 AM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Elijahmaria]
Deacon El Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 572
Loc: Centreville VA
Christ is Risen!
I did not mean any offense to anyone. I was somewhat surprised by the original comment.
If the manner in which I expressed my surprise offended anyone, I humbly apologise.
I will withdraw in prayer to contemplate the time of Pentecost.
Deacon El

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#234781 - 05/15/07 01:53 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Deacon El]
Elijahmaria Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Deacon El
Christ is Risen!
I did not mean any offense to anyone. I was somewhat surprised by the original comment.
If the manner in which I expressed my surprise offended anyone, I humbly apologise.
I will withdraw in prayer to contemplate the time of Pentecost.
Deacon El


Please accept my apologies as well for any detraction or discomfort that I have caused you.

I was too hasty in my retort and will now repent in leisure.

Pray for me.

Mary

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#234836 - 05/15/07 06:06 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Elijahmaria]
lm Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 942
Loc: usa
More comments from Mere Comments, but from a slightly differenct angle:

Quote:
Talk about winning one for the Gipper. The Catholic Church has (in, ahem, modest triumph) welcomed a great many distinguished Protestants into its fold in the past few years, but few of these conversions will make as loud a noise as the return of Dr. Francis Beckwith--who was, until being received into the Catholic Church several weeks ago, no less than the President of the Evangelical Theological Society. This response from his colleague in the Society, Dr. Douglas Groothius of Denver Seminary, is presently circulating:



Dear Frank:


This is a sad day for all true sons and daughters of the Protestant Reformation, for all who lived and died for its truths.


Having abandoned the distinctives of the Reformation (which are deeply rooted in Holy Scripture), you are embracing serious theological error. I wish I could say otherwise, but conscience-bound, I cannot.

By joining Rome, you are putting an institution above God; you are putting men (and I mean males) ahead of the pure gospel of Jesus Christ (See Galatians 1:6-11).

However, you are doing the right thing to resign from your position at ETS.

I have appreciated much of your writing over the years, but I lament what you have now done.

Sincerely,

Doug Groothuis

The little jab about males in the third paragraph is not unexpected from a member of the faculty at what is probably the most aggressively egalitarian of the Evangelical seminaries, a school where "students and faculty are required to use inclusive language in writing” [2006-2007 Student Handbook, p. 51]. The most arresting thing about this letter, however, is that Rome’s putatively illegitimate forward-putting of males is regarded by the writer as contrary to the gospel heritage of the Reformation.




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#234878 - 05/15/07 11:44 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
EdHash Offline
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Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 747
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance
It is one of the useless Easternizations found in the Code:


Dear Father Deacon Lance. I found "useless Easternizations" rather strange. what exactly IS a "useless Easternization? Is there a more useful "-----ation" available that byzcaths should use?

Eddie

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#235055 - 05/16/07 04:45 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: EdHash]
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content
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Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3811
Loc: Washington, PA
Eddie,

What I mean by that is the CCEO was careful to Easternize the terminology while leaving us with Latinized ecclesial law, like limiting the jurisdiction of patriarchs in the diaspora or creating multiplr levels of autonomy based on unknown criteria rather than following the Eastern model.

Fr. Deacon Lance
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#235357 - 05/17/07 10:48 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
EdHash Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 747
Loc: USA
Fr. Deacon Lance. Thank you for clarifying. it seems that you are Eastern in name only. all icing and no cake.

Eddie

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#235371 - 05/17/07 11:39 PM Re: Touchstone's Mere Comments is making some noise about the RDL [Re: EdHash]
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content
Moderator
Member

Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3811
Loc: Washington, PA
Eddie,

Please don't over generalize. It is our spirituality, Liturgy, and heritage that makes us Eastern. It would be nice if the all our laws fell into place with that but it is does not determine our Easterness.

Fr. Deacon Lance
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