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RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy #234058
05/10/07 12:03 PM
05/10/07 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
USA
Father Borislav Offline OP
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Father Borislav  Offline OP
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Has anyone here attended the Holy Liturgy in a Western Orthodox parish?

If yes, can you share some impressions with us?

Unfortunately there isn't a Western Orthodox Church in Boston. My wife and I would really like to go sometime.


Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Father Borislav] #234068
05/10/07 12:50 PM
05/10/07 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,225
San Buenaventura, California
Jakub. Offline
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I checked the Antiochian directory and found you are correct, maybe this blog can help you find more info...


http://westernorthodox.blogspot.com/

james

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Jakub.] #234102
05/10/07 02:50 PM
05/10/07 02:50 PM
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Posts: 1,133
USA
Father Borislav Offline OP
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Ahh! There is a great video on that page James.

Thank you

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Father Borislav] #234139
05/10/07 05:59 PM
05/10/07 05:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,283
Texas
Athanasius The L Offline
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I attended one in Eustis, FL nearly two years ago. To me, it seemed very similar to Anglican liturgy.

Ryan

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Athanasius The L] #234166
05/10/07 09:47 PM
05/10/07 09:47 PM
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Posts: 4,678
Georgia
Logos - Alexis Offline
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Well, the vast majority of Western Orthodox parishes are formerly Episcopalian, so they've revised the liturgy a bit but it's basically the same, much like the Anglican Use of the Latin Rite.

Alexis

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Logos - Alexis] #234167
05/10/07 09:54 PM
05/10/07 09:54 PM
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Georgia
Logos - Alexis Offline
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Oh, I might add that I find it strange that these Western Rite parishes apparently employ Byzantine censers, i.e. with the bells. Weird mixing of rites.

Alexis

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Logos - Alexis] #234172
05/10/07 10:44 PM
05/10/07 10:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Denver, Colorado
venite Offline
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venite  Offline
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Logos-Alexis,

That's not exactly normative in the Antiochian Western Rite parishes. In fact, the practice of mixing Byzantine elements with the Western Rite is strictly forbidden, except in a few areas viewed as essential by the hierarchs. (There are actually a couple of things in these photos which are a little odd ... probably merely local customs).

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: venite] #234215
05/11/07 08:30 AM
05/11/07 08:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,111
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Alexis,

Yes, as a traditional Latin Catholic I know you are particularly sensitive about the Byzantinization of the Western Rites! smile

How dare they? smile

Alex

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #234224
05/11/07 08:59 AM
05/11/07 08:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 646
Pittsburgh
domilsean Offline
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I'm going to say something that will likely land me in trouble.

A heck of an intro, isn't it?

I find Western Rite Orthdoxy to be nothing more than an Orthodox version of Uniatism, of sorts. Granted in many cases these churches have never been in "union" at all with Rome, but you get my meaning -- like when Moscow complains about Uniate churches which were never under their jurisdiction.

If Latin and Orthodox reunite, does that mean that Western Rite parishes will fall under Latin bishops? SSPX bishops? Anglican Rite usage bishops (are there any?)?

I don't know, they bug me.

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: domilsean] #234227
05/11/07 09:20 AM
05/11/07 09:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 51
New Mexico USA
E
East and West Offline
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That's right. We should demand that they cease and desist. They should be closed down because they are an impediment to unity and only exist to trick Catholics into leaving the Church and becoming Eastern Orthodox. LOL. LOL. Obviously, I am kidding but that's how some Eastern Orthodox Christians sound at times when they are talking about Eastern Catholics.

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: East and West] #234231
05/11/07 09:38 AM
05/11/07 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
ebed melech Offline
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domislean,

I concur. It seems somewhat hypocritical of those Orthodox who complain about the Eastern Catholics while at the same time endorsing the Western Rite. One could say the same about Catholics (Eastern and Western) who complain about the Orthodox Western Rite, although the reasons for the creation of the Eastern Catholic churches were quite different historically.

That is not to say that the Orthodox Western rites have not had a positive influence on the views of certain Eastern Orthodox Christians (though not all embrace and support this movement). In the very least, it has helped some I imagine to recognize the value of the West to universal Orthodoxy.

Sometimes God writes straight with crooked lines, as they say.

Gordo

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: East and West] #234233
05/11/07 09:44 AM
05/11/07 09:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,111
Canada
Orthodox Catholic Offline
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Dear Domilsean,

In fact, there is no way the Western Orthodox are even remotely "uniate."

The main reason they are not is because no one from the Eastern Orthodox Churches went out to actively "convert" them to Orthodoxy. If anything, the Western Rites are not exactly "flavour of the month" in a number of Orthodox jurisdictions.

These Western Riters sought Orthodoxy themselves, but wanted to keep their familiar traditions, whether Anglican or Roman Rite (I understand there is a Lutheran group that is in negotiations with the Antiochian Orthodox Church and the Evangelical group has a form of the Byzantine Rite in the AOC).

I've known a Western Rite Orthodox priest for years - he not only joined the Western Rite Vicariate of the AOC, he also brought his entire parish from the Episcopal church over (and has been instrumental in bringing over a number of other Episcopal parishes since!).

When I attended the Antiochian Orthodox conference here in Toronto, I spent most of the time with the Western Riters where I finally met Fr. Stephen Walinski as well! We had communicated by letter and email for years but when I saw him I said, "Father Walinski?" And he said, "Alex?" smile

Among those joining the two Western Rites of the AOC were: Old Catholics, Old Roman Catholics, Disgusted Anglicans, Lutherans, and yes, Roman Catholics who told me that they had it "up to here" with Rome . . . I told them I hoped their new Church wouldn't disappoint them in the same way . . . smile

I also met a former Ukrainian Catholic, now Ukrainian Orthodox, priest who was interested in the Western Rite. He had completed his theology in Rome with someone who later became a rather unpopular bishop of ours . . .

And then I came across a former friend from school who was a real PAPIST back then, but is now an Orthodox priest . . .

Couldn't believe it, so I joked with him, "How is your Orthodox beard, Big Guy?" He replied with a smile, "It's growing!"

What IS similar between EC's and Western Orthodox is that they have similar treatment by their "Big Mama Churches" with which they are in communion.

The Western Rite priests are constantly being told that the Western Rite "won't last" so they should just come over to the Eastern Orthodox Church now etc.

Another thing that "uniates" us is the way Western Orthodox, too, like to poke fun at . . . the Eastern traditions (just like EC's like to do the same with Latin ones wink ).

One Western Orthodox priest gave a report about two former Western Orthodox priests who "went over" to the Eastern Rite . . ."I guess they just liked the icons with the big eyes . . ." (!?).

Another pair of eager beaver Western Orthodox clerics talked about their "missionary tag team" and how they went through U.S. towns getting Old Catholic and Old Roman Catholic store-front churches to join the AOC Western Rite.

I met a couple in the hallway who spoke with a heavey Southern drawl . . . so just had to ask them, "Are you good people Orthodox?" "Yeas, we awrrre . . ." God love them! smile

In addition, the Byzantine Orthodox Church has an Assyrian Orthodox Rite, it has Chalcedonian Armenians and Georgians (although I believe these are Byzantinized).

Alex










Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: East and West] #234235
05/11/07 09:46 AM
05/11/07 09:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Denver, Colorado
venite Offline
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On the term "Uniate" as applied to Western Rite Orthodoxy, see here:

http://occidentalis.blogspot.com/2005/07/wr-orthodoxy-uniatism.html

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #234237
05/11/07 09:49 AM
05/11/07 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
somewhere betwixt the Alpha an...
ebed melech Offline
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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Dear Domilsean,

In fact, there is no way the Western Orthodox are even remotely "uniate."

The main reason they are not is because no one from the Eastern Orthodox Churches went out to actively "convert" them to Orthodoxy.


Alex,

Is that an entirely fair characterization of the what happened to all of the Eastern Catholic Churches (in the opposite direction)? Somehow I do not think so...

Gordo

Re: RE: Western Rite Orthodoxy [Re: Orthodox Catholic] #234239
05/11/07 09:53 AM
05/11/07 09:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 51
Denver, Colorado
venite Offline
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venite  Offline
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Alex

We cross-posted. I couldn't have said it better myself! grin

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