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6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" #236027
05/22/07 04:53 PM
05/22/07 04:53 PM
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Posts: 4,518
The Most Corrupt State
Dr. Eric Offline OP
Catholic Gyoza
Dr. Eric  Offline OP
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The Most Corrupt State

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Dr. Eric] #236033
05/22/07 05:27 PM
05/22/07 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,583
Chicago
Michael_Thoma Offline
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I don't understand these women and their supporters. If they want to play priest, why not become Anglican? Afterall, Canada's "officially" Anglican anyhow. Why do these people want to be labelled Catholic and do unCatholic deeds?

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Michael_Thoma] #236035
05/22/07 05:37 PM
05/22/07 05:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
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Dublin
F
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Canada has no official religion - but the brand of Catholicism practiced in Canada is unofficially influenced by the United Church of Canada, which is a story in itself.

However, since there are no female Catholic bishops (or priestesses), if these idiots purport to produce one anything she attempts to do will be irrelevant to the Catholic Church anyway.

Fr. Serge

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #236046
05/22/07 06:02 PM
05/22/07 06:02 PM
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Posts: 320
Delaware
Mateusz Offline
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just think about the admitance of "altar girls" has done to the doctrine of the priesthood. the church is crying for vocations and lamenting priest shortages and still tolerates altar girls. truly unbelievable. discipline or not, this is deadly to sacred orders. the church has always seen altar boys are a first step in fostering vocations to the priesthood. just think about these "girls" as they are growing older, and they will look like priestesses. not to mention the over-abundant "extra-ordinary" ministers of the eucharist. i just can not understand it

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Mateusz] #236052
05/22/07 06:41 PM
05/22/07 06:41 PM
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Midwest
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PrJ Offline
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I actually see this differently -- it says to me that young girls are being energized in their faith and want to serve Christ. I think it also points to the fact that young girls do not see an active sisterhood of nuns anymore (given the graying of the American nuns). As a result, in their desire to serve Christ, they see only one option: priesthood. The answer is to pray for and work towards a reactivation of the active sisterhood. But the news that girls want to serve Christ and His Church is awesome!

To be honest, I get really tired of the "sky is falling" mentality that so often pious Christians can get trapped into -- not everything that happens is a sign or portent of "bad things" or that the Church is going down a bad path.

The Holy Spirit is still active in His Church and He is still calling people to Himself! The Church is alive with God's grace -- the gates of Hell will NEVER prevail against it. For those who have eyes to see, the signs of renewed life and the activity of God's grace are abundant and all around!

Last edited by PrJ; 05/22/07 06:44 PM.
Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: PrJ] #236081
05/22/07 09:56 PM
05/22/07 09:56 PM
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Posts: 6,186
Walled Lake, Mi
Carson Daniel Offline
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PrJ,

I think this is off topic and perhaps we should start another thread but I'll ask the question here and see what happens. Why do you think the vocation of nun has fallen on such bad times and what do you think ought to be done to reverse it?

CDL

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Carson Daniel] #236083
05/22/07 11:27 PM
05/22/07 11:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Brian Offline
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I believe what Bishop +Kallistos has said, that this is a subject the Church still needs to reflect on and study about. I was extremely anti-woman priest for years but now am pretty neutral about it after reading all the arguments-pro and con.

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Brian] #236087
05/23/07 12:06 AM
05/23/07 12:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
White Plains, N.Y.
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Zenovia Offline
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Zenovia  Offline
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Quote


I believe what Bishop +Kallistos has said, that this is a subject the Church still needs to reflect on and study about. I was extremely anti-woman priest for years but now am pretty neutral about it after reading all the arguments-pro and con.


Dear Brian,

Bishop Kallistos will never say anything negative about anything. He will express his views in a way that will not denigrate or demean anyone in his response, especially the person asking the question. That does not mean that he in anyway agrees with whatever he is asked.

As an example, when he spoke at my church and someone brought up the subject of the word 'man' in the Bible and liturgy rather than person, he diplomatically said that it is a reflection of the poverty of our English language. At the end, he bluntly said, "it will remain 'man'".

God Bless,

Zenovia

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Carson Daniel] #236097
05/23/07 05:59 AM
05/23/07 05:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 571
Holmdel, NJ, USA
Michael McD Offline
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Originally Posted by carson daniel lauffer
PrJ,

I think this is off topic and perhaps we should start another thread but I'll ask the question here and see what happens. Why do you think the vocation of nun has fallen on such bad times and what do you think ought to be done to reverse it?

CDL

In the Roman Catholic Church in America, it is "approximately" because when the orders were told to "re-evaluate" their charisms after Vatican II they adopted "models" for themselves taken from non-authentic sources. They began to see themselves more as "professionals" first (a concept not inappropriate for a layperson), demanded better incomes, diluted their commitments to community life and their traditional habits and customs, etc.

This is the view of Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR, and I believe him. In an article in the June/July 2007 First Things, Fr. Benedict addresses this issue (although he directs his remarks to both men and women religious) and he points out that, currently, young men and women are seeking to follow God in consecrated religious life, but they are being attracted to the more rigorous Orders, not the watered-down versions.

I have a 16-year old daughter who has over the last year or two begun to take more of an interest in her faith. She really likes John Paul II, Benedict XVI, Fr. Groeschel and Mother Angelica (of EWTN). What they have in common seems to me to be a complete dedication to Christ and zeal for the salvation of souls. She has no desire to be a "priest".

What I can do, and need to do, to foster more vocations to the religious life is to pray for them.

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Michael McD] #236115
05/23/07 09:04 AM
05/23/07 09:04 AM
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VA
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Annie_SFO Offline
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How we do things in Catholicism is not determined by opinion polls. Fortunately.

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Annie_SFO] #236120
05/23/07 09:23 AM
05/23/07 09:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 571
Holmdel, NJ, USA
Michael McD Offline
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Not to mention that the "poll" was one of those online counters, and I'm sure they don't require a baptismal certificate before voting! biggrin

These women use the name "Catholic", but that is against Canon Law unless they have the permission of their Bishop, which they have never had. In the past, they have conducted their "ordinations" on boats so that jurisdiction would be doubtful. They, and their ecclesiastical supporters (if any) are a bunch of nuts and con-artists as far as I'm concerned.

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Zenovia] #236211
05/23/07 11:49 AM
05/23/07 11:49 AM
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Sacramento, Ca
Brian Offline
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Originally Posted by Zenovia
Quote


I believe what Bishop +Kallistos has said, that this is a subject the Church still needs to reflect on and study about. I was extremely anti-woman priest for years but now am pretty neutral about it after reading all the arguments-pro and con.


Dear Brian,

Bishop Kallistos will never say anything negative about anything. He will express his views in a way that will not denigrate or demean anyone in his response, especially the person asking the question. That does not mean that he in anyway agrees with whatever he is asked.

As an example, when he spoke at my church and someone brought up the subject of the word 'man' in the Bible and liturgy rather than person, he diplomatically said that it is a reflection of the poverty of our English language. At the end, he bluntly said, "it will remain 'man'".

God Bless,

Zenovia


no, his response in the interview was that although personally he did not believe in women priests, he did feel that the Church had not studied enough about the question to make a definitive judgement about it and should keep the subject open. He said he was not convinced by arguments on either side.
It had nothing to do with Bishop +Kallistos "politeness" although he is an extremely gracious man.

Last edited by Brian; 05/23/07 11:49 AM.
Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Brian] #236371
05/24/07 10:14 AM
05/24/07 10:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
White Plains, N.Y.
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Zenovia Offline
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Zenovia  Offline
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Quote
He said he was not convinced by arguments on either side.


Dear Brian,

The word convinced, could be taken two ways. One would be as, (I believe), you assume, that he himself was not convinced by the arguments presented. The other is that he personally does not become convinced by arguments, but rather follows the direction the Holy Spirit leads him in. That direction of course, was the personal opinion he stated on women priests.

In my estimation, Bishop Kallistos is a saint and there is nothing more pleasurable to my soul than knowing that he is at the discussions taking place between the Orthodox and Catholics. As a saint, he lacks the limits of 'pride', and is therefore capable of a fuller understanding and comprehension on all matters.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Zenovia] #236380
05/24/07 10:43 AM
05/24/07 10:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,716
Sacramento, Ca
Brian Offline
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Brian  Offline
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Zenovia,,

Did you study under the sons of St Francis Xavier?? smile That was the most Jesuitical answer i have heard in some time! BRAVA!! smile
But the Bishop does not choose the 2nd of these intepretations in the interview.

Here is the interview:
http://www.goarch.org/en/multimedia/video/

Go down the page a bit

However, I do agree with you that Bishop +Kallistos IS a saint and a wonderful example to the Orthodox Faith especially in his love towards other Christians especially his Eastern and Roman Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.

Last edited by Brian; 05/24/07 10:47 AM.
Re: 6 Out of 10 Polled Want "WomenPriests" [Re: Michael_Thoma] #236498
05/24/07 05:07 PM
05/24/07 05:07 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Houston, TX USA
Terry Bohannon Offline
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"I don't understand these women and their supporters."

It is not for the constructive goals that this happens.

The following is purely speculative. Twenty years down the road I’ll probably laugh at myself, but I will attempt to give an understanding of these people.

A good analogy in understanding their motives could be with all this talk of the "lost" or "secret" gospels. There are philosophers who believe that cultures create their own narratives, they can point to the canon of the New Testament as a narrative. The narrative is what defines a group of people, they say.

Then some people see this and reject those people, or what they believe in. They would rather that something else be believed. So they look through the narrative from this viewpoint and attempt to discredit it bit by bit. German high-criticism can be used to this end. But that is not enough for others who want a stronger argument; they want to craft an alternate narrative. So they research and make claims, then write books that say the "Gospel of Thomas" or other such works are as valid or more valid then that narrative.

So in embracing these alternate narratives and convincing others to do the same, they no longer have to look carefully at the Christian canon. They can just dismiss it.

So, the conclusion to is that there may be some people trying to work within the church to change it, so they can dismiss the historical church in favor of the alternate one they choose—they destroy the historical church in the process, it seems Nietzschean.

I don’t know if that makes any sense at all, it is difficult to try and work with post-modern philosophy with sources…even harder through my narrow interpretation of what they are saying.

Last edited by Terry Bohannon; 05/24/07 05:16 PM.
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