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#236853 - 05/27/07 04:00 PM
Re: Letter to one who left for Orthodoxy....
[Re: Etnick]
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Member
Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 492
Loc: just south of nowhere
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Etick, I'm not saying that the UGCC is without it's issues (to be kind). St. Andrew's in Parma in Ohio here is interesting to attend to say the least with it's altar girls, recited liturgies, kneeling on Sundays, etc. I just think that if more churches were like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emcry2SU4vIthat many of you would still be with us. Note I said many not all. Monomakh
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#236854 - 05/27/07 04:05 PM
Re: Letter to one who left for Orthodoxy....
[Re: Monomakh]
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Member
Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 1175
Loc: West of Johnstown
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Etick, I'm not saying that the UGCC is without it's issues (to be kind). St. Andrew's in Parma in Ohio here is interesting to attend to say the least with it's altar girls, recited liturgies, kneeling on Sundays, etc. I just think that if more churches were like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emcry2SU4vIthat many of you would still be with us. Note I said many not all. Monomakh I watched that video some time ago and couldn't believe my eyes. Hard to believe that it's a Greek Catholic Church. They are a parish that should be emulated by all Greek Catholics, and some Orthodox parishes could also learn a thing or two.
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#236855 - 05/27/07 04:30 PM
Re: Letter to one who left for Orthodoxy....
[Re: Etnick]
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Catholic Gyoza
Member
Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 4506
Loc: The Most Corrupt State
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If I could kindly get Luther out of this and add this, or maybe say that this is what would be in my letter to those who have gone to Orthodoxy or are considering it:
While I understand the reasons (believe you me) for leaving, I would ask you, if it is possible, to travel to Brampton, Ontario (just outside of Toronto) and experience a liturgy at St. Elias there. I think that you would find everything that you are looking for, and the salient point is not for all us to move to Brampton and become parishoners there, but to realize that one can be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time, that it is truly possible. However, it just isn't happening in 90%+ of parishes in North America. And don't try to tell me that when 90%+ of our churches don't have Vespers or Matins that it is happening. Don't try to tell me that when liturgy is over in 45 minutes as I experienced today at my BCA church that something isn't wrong.
The point is that it can happen. Have those who are on the ledge and considering Orthodoxy considered the UGCC? They've got their liberal places as well, but they also have (i.e. St. Elias) some 'Orthodox' ones as well. I'm not advocating it as much as I am just throwing it our there for comment?
Monomakh Sounds like a good idea Monomakh, but every UGCC church I've been to was very Latinized with recited (gag!) Liturgies. Come to Assumption UGCC in St. Louis, all singing all the time! 
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#236856 - 05/27/07 04:30 PM
Re: Letter to one who left for Orthodoxy....
[Re: Etnick]
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Member
Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 492
Loc: just south of nowhere
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Etick, This isn't meant to be an infomercial for St. Elias in Brmapton, but rather food for thought for those who are considering leaving. Once again, it is possible to be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time. If the principles and traditions practiced at St. Elias were proprogated at more of our churches, real renewal would take place in faith and growth. Archbishop Basil has called for 'an athentic place of worship'. Let's start with St. John's in Munhall. What time is Vespers this Saturday? What time is Matins next Sunday? What time is the bonfire with the pews? That should be a good start. Monomakh ps If you like the other video check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7AS-306DxY
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#236857 - 05/27/07 04:34 PM
Re: Letter to one who left for Orthodoxy....
[Re: Dr. Eric]
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Member
Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 1175
Loc: West of Johnstown
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If I could kindly get Luther out of this and add this, or maybe say that this is what would be in my letter to those who have gone to Orthodoxy or are considering it:
While I understand the reasons (believe you me) for leaving, I would ask you, if it is possible, to travel to Brampton, Ontario (just outside of Toronto) and experience a liturgy at St. Elias there. I think that you would find everything that you are looking for, and the salient point is not for all us to move to Brampton and become parishoners there, but to realize that one can be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time, that it is truly possible. However, it just isn't happening in 90%+ of parishes in North America. And don't try to tell me that when 90%+ of our churches don't have Vespers or Matins that it is happening. Don't try to tell me that when liturgy is over in 45 minutes as I experienced today at my BCA church that something isn't wrong.
The point is that it can happen. Have those who are on the ledge and considering Orthodoxy considered the UGCC? They've got their liberal places as well, but they also have (i.e. St. Elias) some 'Orthodox' ones as well. I'm not advocating it as much as I am just throwing it our there for comment?
Monomakh Sounds like a good idea Monomakh, but every UGCC church I've been to was very Latinized with recited (gag!) Liturgies. Come to Assumption UGCC in St. Louis, all singing all the time! Is it an all ENGLISH sung Liturgy? I have yet to witness it at any UGC church. The completely sung liturgies were always in Ukrainian.
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#236861 - 05/27/07 04:43 PM
Re: Letter to one who left for Orthodoxy....
[Re: Monomakh]
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Member
Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 1175
Loc: West of Johnstown
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Etick, This isn't meant to be an infomercial for St. Elias in Brmapton, but rather food for thought for those who are considering leaving. Once again, it is possible to be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time.If the principles and traditions practiced at St. Elias were proprogated at more of our churches, real renewal would take place in faith and growth. Archbishop Basil has called for 'an athentic place of worship'. Let's start with St. John's in Munhall. What time is Vespers this Saturday? What time is Matins next Sunday? What time is the bonfire with the pews? That should be a good start. Monomakh ps If you like the other video check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7AS-306DxY Monomakh, that statement leaves me a little perplexed. If one can be Orthodox and Catholic at the same time, why does my priest tell me I can't commune outside of the Orthodox Church?
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#236866 - 05/27/07 05:35 PM
Re: Letter to one who left for Orthodoxy....
[Re: Etnick]
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Member
Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 1625
Loc: New York
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Monomakh, that statement leaves me a little perplexed. If one can be Orthodox and Catholic at the same time, why does my priest tell me I can't commune outside of the Orthodox Church? Absolutely crucial point Etnik!! This is why the Catholic Church makes plain the difference between a "material" schismatic, and a "formal" schismatic. A formal schismatic who meets the Church's criteria is said to be sinfully participating in a sinful act. A material schismatic may have circumstances that mitigate their participation in formal schism and are not condemned by the Church in any way, though I cannot imagine any of our recent popes encouraging such willful participation. That being said, the Catholic position toward Orthodoxy is one of economy while the Orthodox position toward the Catholic Church remains one of acriva. Mary
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