I have been reading, pondering, praying over these threads since I joined on 3/25/07. To say I am overwhelmed is such an understatement. I have a strong urge to let "the authorities" know my concerns about the Revised Divine Liturgy. Yet, I don't know where to begin, what to say, who do say what to. I have figured out one thing. There are a handful of members who consistently write the very thoughts I have and would really appreciate direct contact with them. Is this possible? If so, how? Specifically, the members I am referring to are: Recluse, Im, Corsair, Monomakh, Ung-Certez, Serge Keleher, 1 Th 5:21.

You can always send private messages to them through the forum; click on their underlined named by a post, then click "Send a PM" in the small pop-up window.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

Greetings true faith,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

You will be able to find names and adresses of those whom you can send letters expressing your concern about our reformed Liturgy at the thread titled, "keep writing letters". There are many here who have been scandalized by the new Liturgy and our consciences will not allow us to stop opposing it. It is an uphill battle because this reformation has been promulgated and approved. Our Church does not seem to want to hear the voices of those who cry in agony with a broken heart. We are largely brushed aside and written off as an inconsequential "cyber revolution" which will fade away in time. The reversal of this secret reformation will take time--someone here has said that it may take a generation. That is difficult for me to swallow. I cannot wait for a generation because I fear that my young daughter will be catechized improperly by the ideas of the reformers. If it was only me and my wife, perhaps I could bear it. However, I am encouraged by what I hear regarding some Ruthenian Catholic Churches which refuse to celebrate the novus ordo Divine Liturgy and others which will not even purchase the books. This may precipitate a fairly quick reversal. If not, I fear there will be a schism in the Church. Alas, many including myself, may pilgrimage to the Holy Orthodox Church where they can celebrate their love for Eastern spirituality while worshipping God through the beauty of a Traditional Divne Liturgy. My posts are as honest as I can be. I open my thoughts, my heart, and my soul, to others here who are experiencing a similar pain. Please feel free to PM me any time you wish.

Peace and blessings to you and your family,
Recluse

Recluse, the whole new liturgy is a scandal. No matter how much they pretend it is simply an updated translation and slight changes to the music anyone with eyes and ears can see it is really bad. If Rome will not respond to us and allow us to have the real Byzantine liturgy then we will have to leave and go elsewhere. It hurts to be told that you are stupid when you can see that they are the ones that don't get it.

Yes. I have been told on more than one occasion that I am not the expert so I have no right to question the changes.....

....yet my heart says otherwise.

It hurts to be told I have no eyes nor ears.

Desert,

If you are in Phoenix, you can always journey over to Saint john of the Desert Melkite Church. We would love to have you for Saturday Vespers and Sunday Divine Liturgy!

I have been to St. John's and may join there. We went to Holy Archangels a few times and liked it, too. Right now I am so upset that I am finding it difficult to go anywhere for liturgy. I now understand why some people avoid organized religion.

Desert,

Please remember that you are not alone in your struggle. You will easily find with whom you can share it. Ironically, many of them in organized religion.

Is it mostly Arabic or English?

English, with some Arabic and a touch of Greek. We use more Arabic on feast days. Mostly, i'd say about 96% English. ON feast days, about 85% English.

I hope it won't take that long. There are all kinds of rumors around, some of them might be true. I heard that the bishop-chairman of the Revisionist committee has resigned, and that could change things. I also heard that there are going to be changes in the staff at the seminary (where this whole scheme of revising our Liturgy and Music was brewed up).

There are interesting things happening in some of the Churches, where those who haven't walked out of the parishes, are refusing to sing, and refusing to give, unless the pastor brings back the old books. A few Churches are going back to home-made printed sheets. (...a great leap backward of about 30 years).

So, there are signs that it won't take a generation. There are rumors going around that the committee has been told not to meet for a while, and some of them are looking for 'professor-ships' elsewhere.

Nick

Prayer, fasting, work and returning to the real holy traditions...
the quicker, the better the Ruthenian Church will be.

Please understand that we should not leave a Church because we do not like something. This is indicative of a much deeper spiritual problem. If you are a Byzantine Catholic, you must be that because you feel it is the truth. While something such as a "translation" change of the Divine Liturgy might pain you greatly and cause you to send up endless cries to the Lord (who does hear you), it should not cause you to leave. Then you are in essence saying, this is not the truth now. But if you go somewhere else, then aren't you asserting that now that is the truth?

If this is the case, then what was true just changed. That doesn't seem possible if the truth is profoundly united.

Yet how can the Church of Christ change? She may be Divine, but she is certainly human as well.

I just implore you, beseech you to offer your sufferings to the Lord and to continue to work for change in the Divine Liturgy.

You are right about that! We need to work for change, and demand better translations, accurate translations, and much better books. There is no reason why we have to put up with the garbage that we've been given.

Nick

Robert, you are right that someone should not leave because of negative reasons. But also the Church allows and even blesses someone to transfer to another Church sui iuris if it is of genuine spiritual benefit. Often the Holy Spirit leads one to other pastures.

Is there any real hope that the revisions will be undone in the near future? I am a Latin in the process of switching to the Ruthenian, I have spoken with a priest who gave me assurances that the changes (though he found some of them to be unnecessary and distasteful) were not as bad as many on these forums would have them seem. I felt reassured but not that feeling is fleeting. I have tired of the liturgical abuse within the Latin Rite Novus Ordo, and the incessant backbiting and Latin Rite superiority complex found among Tridentine circles. I am bent on switching my rite to a Byzantine rite, but am now unsure of where to go. I am not near a Ukrainian Church, have no transportation to the Melkite Church and am not sure I would be welcomed in the Melkite because it seems to be a very ethnic parish. I am left with the Ruthenian where I have felt most at peace. The priest there (I have not spoken to him on the liturgy yet) is very kind and in my opinion a saint, the Church is gorgeous and the congregation warm and welcoming, so I am very reluctant to look elsewhere. What should I do?

Hersch,

Let me understand, the priest is kind and holy, the church is beautiful, the parishioners welcoming? What is the problem? Some internet grumblings? Why would you let posts of those you don't even no disturb what you have experienced first hand?

Fr. Deacon Lance

Well, being as how I am Irish-German descent, but Melkite Greek Catholic, you can imagine my recommendation.

However, I think Father Deacon Lance makes an excellent point: go where God is calling you. Internet grumblings or not, the decision is your and should be based on your own criteria.

Also, every Church has problems, Roman, Eastern Catholic, Orthodox. Don't think for one minute that any Church is not plagied by the constant disease of "in-fighting".

Thank you for your kind words and assurances. I pretty much flew into a panic after reading all these discussions on the RDL and didn't think or reason things out clearly. I will continue my switch into the Ruthenian. Please pray for me.

An internet forum is generally not the best place to seek discernment - this should be done inwardly with prayer, patience, and seeking the advice of others (especially a spiritual father if you have one, if not those you trust and know well with spiritual matters). A change of Church sui iuris is a serious thing and should be discerned with patience. Prayers for the journery.

AGREED! This advice and counsel is repeated all too often not only in this section but in all sections of this forum. Our prayers go out to you as you discern your path, but seek the advice and counsel of a spiritual father or director.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

If I may add to the excellent advice of Father Anthony and Diak, it seems to me that much more time praying and listening for God to speak to you in and through your spiritual father, your pastor, and other trusted souls is a far better way to move along in spiritual discernment than spending time on the internet trying to articulate your deepest thoughts about eternal things.

When I want to get into these areas, a walk in a park near home with few people around and no lawn mowers going is the ticket. Then an appointment with my spiritual father is in order.

It's also wise to understand that these decisions are NOT the kind one makes in the same manner one decides on a cup of coffee. These have eternal consequences and one ought first to understand what this last phrase means: something like "irrevocable"--you may not have the chance to take it back.

In Christ,

BOB

I understand the choice is irrevocable and I seem to have acted in a way that makes me seem to treat this decision as something lightly. That could not be farther from the truth. I have attended a Byzantine parish regularly for a good time now, I have consulted with my confessor and my pastor. I have sought to educate myself in all matters pertaining to such a change. I have unfortunately fallen victim to my own fault of panicking when I see something the least bit negative about an occurrence going on in the Church. Such discussions on liturgical changes affect me deeply as I come from a family who regularly attends the Latin Tridentine and have served it for close to eight years. In our family there was constant infighting due to the liturgical divide, one side was involved with the Indult Mass, others like my parents and I attended both the Indult and Novus Ordo, and then finally a good portion of the family was Society of Saint Pius X. An after affect of being around such constant heated discussions was the resulting panic you've witnessed on these message boards from me over the last couple of days. Liturgical change can make me feel uncomfortable and some of the rhetoric I saw made me feel like I was entering a situation much like that of my Tridentine attending parents. However I have found that after consulting two very good priests, talking to a very good and knowledgable friend, and spending some time in prayer that such fears are unfounded and that I should have more of a backbone in these regards. I thank you all your your advice and ask you for continued prayers as I move on from this display of panic and once more place my trust in God and follow His path for me into the Ruthenian Rite. I would also greatly appreciate it if any discussion as to my panicked postings would stop as it is something I would like to move on from and forget.

Christ With US!

Hersch Green

With that request this thread will now be closed.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator