The BCC was supposed to be following various documents from the Vatican on liturgics and traditions as well as the Recensio Rutena. Anyone familiar with the BCC knows how the reality pales in comparison to the theory. This could be considered just as 'illegal'.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

"This phenomenon is, of course, completely illegal."

It's quite common from what I understand. In fact, many people prefer this option over the alternative.

Then you need to get out and around more, Jeff. From what I can see you do not have a broad knowledge of the local realities of your Church.

Given your willingness to advise and instruct, that kind of ignorance of the variations in local circumstances is unacceptable, and weakens your credibility in the eyes of those who are aware more broadly.

Mary

So everyone's a critic here?! How many critics were cantors prior to the RDL? How mnany even voluntered to help lead the singing in those parishes where the liturgy is recited. OPerhaps if more had volunteered then there would be less problems now?

Specifically, I was in Hazelton PA two years ago on a weekday and the liturgy was SPOKEN! (NO NEW RDL AT THAT TIME!!!!) SO, it can't have been spoken because of resentment or dislike of the translation (which does leave a lot to dislike). The priest and people spoke the entire liturgy in a hurried, monotone with the liturgy lasting barely 25 minutes.

Not what I would have considered prayerful at all!

At least now everyone has the same music in front of them instead of guessing what music version of the next hymn (or in one case, the next verse) will be.

Well, of course, we know from reading here on the Forum for the past two or three years that the answer to this sad reality, Steve, is to prune in anticipation of the New Springtime.

Just close all parishes where there are no cantors or no cantors for weekday masses.

See how simple that is?

Mary

*shrug* I've served in some 20 parishes in four eparchies and attended services in a dozen others. I stand by my assertion that

- spoken liturgy is quite out of the ordinary IN OUR TRADITION, MUCH more so than leaving the Royal Doors open or abbreviating litanies, and where it occurs is likely due either to adoption of a Roman "Low Mass", or the absence of a cantor. When such services have been mentioned here OUTSIDE of the context of the "changes", there was a rush to stigmatize them.

- as a rule, a cantor (or SOMEONE who can lead the singing, set pitches, and choose melodies and hymns to use) is necessary for our services, and parishes that do not have one need to make it a priority. You say its a shame we don't have Vespers and MATINS, and can't come up with a regular cantor for one hour a week and our simplest music?

Fifteen years ago, there were PRECIOUS few resources for cantors; there are more now. But I'm hearing here about parishes that have not had cantors for years, "and everyone is old and can't learn anything new." Well, that's two separate problems - but the first one is definitely not a result of the liturgical changes.

If your parish is within two hours of Binghamton, NY, and has no cantor, but has one singer willing to learn, I will come weekly on Sunday and stay long enough to get them to where they can lead services comfortably - and if any parish wants to start having Vespers, the same stands.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

There have been some mighty changes for the worse over the last ten years. Morale is awful in many places in our Metropolia. Rather than being supported in efforts to grow bigger and stronger, in some dioceses, there's been a conscious effort to squash growth, to choke off outreach and mission. These are facts.

I don't know the rate of the attrition of clergy across the Metropolia but the eastern most diocese has seen a frightening drop in the past decade and will not recover from that easily, and the average ages of priests and people in some parishes are edging into the 70's on account. So what might have looked good to you in the past does not look good now and will look worse if there is not an infusion of life soon and steady.

There are things you can demand of a parish with some young blood that you cannot demand of an old parish and an old priest...and I hope to God we don't stoop to being critical of the men who gave their lives for this Church.

The last thing this Church needed was a liturgy that is weakened in its theology with dirge-like melodies.

And you cannot tell me, in all truth, that every one of those settings are there because they are "authentic."

Some are as they are because of the translation itself in the places where it has become not only weak but exceptionally ugly, aesethetically. That is enough to warp any musical setting.

You don't need "bad" singers to blame for bad music.

I've listened to and looked at what is on the MCI site and some of it is horrid to the ear and to the soul. It is deadening, depressing and drab, even with trained voices.



This is precisely the thing that is going to be needed, to keep the pruning tool at bay.

That is a fine offer, Jeff.

I'd like to hear more offers like it!!

God bless you for it.

Mary

A very fundamental question is: To what extent is the Ruthenian Recension still held to be normative or relevant by the Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh. See:

http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/237147/page/1#Post237147

KO63AP's post is one that I missed the other day. It is probably one of the best and most poignant posts of recent memory.

It is hilarious, ludicrous, and sad to see after years and years of total disregard for various documents, traditions, liturgics, etc. that many of the people who ignored them are now demanding absolute letter of the law to the rewritten rules. I'm all for following the rules, our ancestors and those who came before us seemed to have done a pretty good job of spelling out what those rules were, are, and should be. Why the rules had to be changed to fit secular society is beyond me. Is it illegal to question secularism by the way?

Monomakh