www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Liturgical Sponge

Now I know what this is used for - but recently a thought came into my mind which concerned me rather more than a little.

Perhaps our Deacons and Priests or other knowledgeable folk could help.

When the Sponge is used to ensure that all particles are removed from the Diskos - what happens next ?

As I see it there may well be some very tiny - almost invisible particles that then adhere to the Sponge and , if the Sponge is a 'real' one , there are many holes of varying sizes for these tiny particles to enter .

How is the Sponge cleaned ?

The sponge is not cleaned - it is destroyed by fire eventually, and the ashes buried in consecrated ground.

If whatever remains of the Holy Eucharist is no longer recognizable as bread or wine, the miracle of Transubstantiation ceases.

Fr. Serge

Thank you Father

I had wondered along those lines - but once a question like that is in my head - then I have to get the answer

Fr. Serge, is this because of the Eastern view that the Holy Eucharist is food? I remember Catholic friends of mine who go to chruch and receive the Holy Eucharist (they are Roman Catholics) and cannot chew on the host. The Romans also have adoration. but Byzantine Catholics and Orthodox do none of this because the Holy Eucharist is food and is to be eaten. if it no longer is consumable food, then it is no longer Holy Eucharist.

Am I ok on this?
Ed

Ed,
I would say you have a firm handle on this.
Stephanos I

Actually, not quite:

a) so long as the "accidents" of bread or wine are discernable, the Eucharist remains the Eucharist, whether anyone consumes It or not.

b) certainly we practice adoration of the Reserved Mysteries - just read the text and rubrics for the Divine Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts.

Fr. Serge

That was where I thought he was going, perhaps I misunderstood him.
Stephanos I

Hi,

The Catholic Church likes to define things to great detail, but if you take all the theological positions and put them together, you arrive more or less to the same general conclusion:

If the Eucharistic gifts cease to be edible, then the Real Presence of Christ ceases to be in them.

Still, the standard practice is to burn and bury sponges, purificators and even decomposed Hosts, out of respect for the Sacrament.

Shalom,
Memo

Strictly speaking, this may not be accurate. It happens not infrequently that the Reserved Holy Gifts, which have been dried for the purpose of Reservation, may become so hard that They would not normally be considered edible. This can be a particular problem with the Holy Lamb Reserved for the Divine Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts.

When this occurs, many priests will agree that the best thing to do is to moisten the Holy Gifts slightly, even using very hot water, so that the steam may penetrate and restore the edibility of the Holy Gifts.

However, the question of any effect on Transubstantion does not arise - because the appearance of Bread is still recognizable.

Just in case anyone is wondering, the prudent priest will divide the Holy Gifts for the sick into small Particles during the process of Reservation. Then, when he brings the sick person Holy Communion, before starting the prayers and the Confession, he will place the Particle in the wine which he has brought for this very purpose, and which softens the Holy Gifts so that the sick person is able to consume the Holy Communion.

Fr. Serge

Dear Anhelyna of Lourdes,

How are you?

Actually, your question is exactly what prompted the Synod of Zamosc to condemn the practice of the sponge and have it removed from practice altogether!

Alex

Well now - and there's another interesting bit of info to tuck away.

Thanks Alex

I'm fine - Lourdes was err , umm fun , well when we weren't being robbed that is :P

Hi



Ah, well, yes, Father, of course, you are right.

However, this is not the scenario I had in mind when I wrote my original remark.

In my mind, hardened bread is hard (no pun intended), but not impossible to eat.

I was thinking mostly of mold.

In the Latin Church, we do not mix the Hosts with the Precious Blood, except, in some cases, during the actual ministering of Holy Communion.

Of course, we reserve only the (quite dry) Hosts, so the Blessed Sacrament usually may be reserved for extended periods of time. However, there are cases in which, at receiving Communion, you cannot help but notice you are consuming a Host that, well, needed to be consumed right away.

I do not think this affects the Real Precense of Our Lord.

Shalom,
Memo

Mold, I should think, counts as corruption - and the classic teaching is that any corruption restores the status quo ante, so to speak. But if you really want to wander into the more esoteric by-ways of sacramenal theology, I suggest consulting an expert.

Fr. Serge

Dear Memo,

This reminds me of those Eucharistic miracles where the Hosts are dirty et al. and are then exposed on an altar to the elements for public Adoration until they become moldy etc.

And in some cases such Hosts have remained intact for a couple of hundred years and still are!

Alex

Dear Anhelyna,

Well, certainly you and Lourdes are "as thick as thieves!"

Alex