Alex - OUCH

Dear Anhelyna,

Sorry . . .

Alex

Maybe we should have solemn exposition of the Sponge?

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father Archimandrite!

If I am deemed sponge-worthy.

Alex

Dear Alex,

Elaine will need to determine that! :-)

Father Serge,
Bless!
Thank you for clarifying the True Presence with regards to the questions. I believe that the True Presence is timeless, through space and time! To the last particle!

In Christ,

Michael

As I noted on another thread....

Martin Luther took the Western view that the Sacrament was confected through the Words of Institution to its logical extension: many Lutheran liturgies to this day have no epiclesis nor any additional consecratory prayers whatever. This is in keeping with Luther's "German Mass and Order of Divine Service." And he took the prevalent view on this board that the Eucharist was intended only to be consumed, not adored, to such an extent that his followers believed the Real Presence ceases at the end of the people's communion! Hence, Martin Chemnitz wrote, "God is not present in them inseparably...they are not sacraments apart from their use. When these sacraments have been completed, they either pass away...or are separated from the sacramental union." Truly, it looks like the worst of both worlds.

------
Western Orthodoxy Blog

But many Luthernas do not hold this view and do indeed reserve the sacrament and accord it honor ( a vigil light is kept burning before it) although they do not adore it in the Catholic sense.

Fr. Deacon Lance

A interesting article from the New Blackfiars that may fit here...something East & West


http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1741-2005.2006.00139.x?cookieSet=1

james

That's not entirely true. Luther supported the adoration of the sacramnet, but only in the context of the Eucharistic liturgy. That is to say the people were to adore the sacrament precisely because it is the holy body and blood of Christ, but the proper context for that devotion is in the liturgy and not in a seperate rite instituted solely for that purpose.

And while Chmenitz did indeed hold the opinion that the sacrament ceased to be sacrament when not in use, this of course prohibits the reservation of the sacrament for the communion of the sick, a practice which nevertheless has remained within Lutheran circles.


-----
Jack Turner

IC XC
NI KA

Jack,

Here's an article I read regarding the matter within Lutheran circles, apparently reserving the "Consecrated Body and Blood", even to distribute to the sick is a very controversial issue and the practice is a recent "innovation" in Lutheran practice.

Question! Must a liturgical sponge be of real natural sea sponge? Will tiny-pored synthetic sponges (like the sort for makeup) suffice?

The liturgical sponge should properly be a natural sponge; they are readily available.

Fr. Serge

Edward, you can buy them in your local pharmacy (Western). At least you could last time I graced the shores of Singapore.

In my travels, I've only ever seen natural sponges used. However, it seems that synthetic sponges may be used in Romania: http://www.magazinortodox.ro/consumabile-c-41.html

David