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Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight #243657
07/08/07 05:27 PM
07/08/07 05:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Irondale,AL
Pani Rose Offline OP
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They must have had a large Slavic community when they placed this in the court house. The ACLU does pretty dumb things, but in this one...well I don't recon' they should take on one God's icons...

The ACLU says a Louisiana courthouse lobby portrait which includes an image of Jesus is a violation of the supposed separation of church and state, but city and regional government leaders disagree. That's the crux of the lawsuit filed by the civil liberties group, which will be opposed by a Bible-based First Amendment law firm on the defendants' behalf.

According to The Times-Picayne, local clergy have identified the portrait as "Christ the Savior," a 16th century Russian Orthodox icon. The passages displayed in the portrait are written in Russian, says the report.

"We've had the tablet translated now, and it's a very innocuous message," Johnson continues. "It says 'Judge not according to the appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.' And on the other [side of the] tablet it says, 'For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged.'"
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/07/slidell_painting_draws_aclu_le.php

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: Pani Rose] #243659
07/08/07 05:54 PM
07/08/07 05:54 PM
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VA
DAVIDinVA Offline
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I have to side w/ the ACLU on this one. An image of Christ accompanied by an exhortation to obey the Christian sciptures is clearly a breach of the establishment clause. A government entity cannot appear to endorse one religion over another.
I'm seriously considering contacting the VA chapter of the ACLU myself. I recently went to city hall to straighten out my property tax and I must admit I was somewhat uncomfortable due to the fact that the person I was dealing with had a Koran prominenetly displayed on her desk. I'm perfectly happy to respect anyone's religious freedom; I don't feel that a municipal employee should display it on city property on city time.

Last edited by DAVIDinVA; 07/08/07 05:55 PM.
Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: DAVIDinVA] #243674
07/08/07 07:09 PM
07/08/07 07:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
White Plains, N.Y.
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Zenovia Offline
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Zenovia  Offline
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Quote
I recently went to city hall to straighten out my property tax and I must admit I was somewhat uncomfortable due to the fact that the person I was dealing with had a Koran prominenetly displayed on her desk. I'm perfectly happy to respect anyone's religious freedom; I don't feel that a municipal employee should display it on city property on city time.


Dear David,

I disagree with you here. She has as much a right to have the Koran on her desk, as I have to wear a cross, or have a bible or icon on mine...if I had one. The only problem is, that as a Christian I would be severely persecuted, and as a Muslim, she would not be.

In that sense, could the problem of the portrait of Jesus simply be because it is a Christian symbol? What a pity, because what would our laws be if it weren't for the Christian contents within those laws, and the Christian mentality that formed them.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: Zenovia] #243675
07/08/07 07:11 PM
07/08/07 07:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,398
Georgia U.S.
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy Offline
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy  Offline
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Georgia U.S.
Originally Posted by Zenovia
Quote
I recently went to city hall to straighten out my property tax and I must admit I was somewhat uncomfortable due to the fact that the person I was dealing with had a Koran prominenetly displayed on her desk. I'm perfectly happy to respect anyone's religious freedom; I don't feel that a municipal employee should display it on city property on city time.


Dear David,

I disagree with you here. She has as much a right to have the Koran on her desk, as I have to wear a cross, or have a bible or icon on mine...if I had one. The only problem is, that as a Christian I would be severely persecuted, and as a Muslim, she would not be.

In that sense, could the problem of the portrait of Jesus simply be because it is a Christian symbol? What a pity, because what would our laws be if it weren't for the Christian contents within those laws, and the Christian mentality that formed them.

God Bless,

Zenovia


Zenovia,

What Christian contents in our laws?

Joe

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: JSMelkiteOrthodoxy] #243748
07/09/07 03:43 AM
07/09/07 03:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,562
Glasgow, Scotland
O
Our Lady's slave Offline
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Glasgow, Scotland
Hmm - can't resist chiming in here smile

My younger daughter is a Prison Officer [ yes that does have relevance smile ]

When she started whe was informed that in the cell of Muslim Prisoners was a high shelf on which their copy of the Koran was to be kept.

She asked why and was told

It is not permitted for the Koran to be kept where it is possible for Non-Muslims to touch it - this action [touching] would amount to sacrilege.

As a result when they do cell searches the first thing they check is where the copy of the Koran is - if not on the high shelf - then they will search through that as well as the rest of the cell contents - as they say a good Muslim will keep his Koran away from us infidels.


Soooo this lady should not be keeping her copy on her desk where it could quite feasibly be touched by Non Muslims .


Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: Our Lady's slave] #243847
07/09/07 01:00 PM
07/09/07 01:00 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Houston, TX USA
Terry Bohannon Offline
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Good point! My copy of the Koran has been touched by infidels, particularly by me. I have also let other infidels touch it as well.

CAIR was giving out free Korans, so I signed up.

Last edited by Terry Bohannon; 07/09/07 01:01 PM.
Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: Terry Bohannon] #243888
07/09/07 03:25 PM
07/09/07 03:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,688
Knoxville, TN
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byzanTN Offline
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Originally Posted by Terry Bohannon
Good point! My copy of the Koran has been touched by infidels, particularly by me. I have also let other infidels touch it as well.

CAIR was giving out free Korans, so I signed up.


I don't have a Koran, but my Book of Mormon is on the shelf with my fantasy collection. I guess I'm doomed. wink

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: byzanTN] #243924
07/09/07 05:48 PM
07/09/07 05:48 PM
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USA
Wondering Offline
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Originally Posted by byzanTN
I don't have a Koran, but my Book of Mormon is on the shelf with my fantasy collection. I guess I'm doomed. wink

If your bookshelf at home or at work, high or low, includes the Book of Mormon, the Koran, and the Bible, then you need to be concerned only if it includes one of the following as well:

Section 1: The Sealed Portion of the Brother of Jared Volume I & II, The Lost Books of the Bible and the Forgotten Books of Eden, The Gnostic Bible, the Gnostic Scriptures, or the Gospel of Judas.

Section 2: the Hiram Key, the Second Messiah, Uriel's Machine, the Book of Hiram, Duncan's Ritual Monitor, Rider - Waite Tartot deck, Religion and Science, the Sacred depths of Nature, Buddhism: Plain and Simple, The Lost Gospel: Q, the Secret History of Lucifer, or Earth Prayers.

Section 3: Adventures Beyond of the Body, Simplified Magic, Celtic Magic, Earth Power, Modern Magick, Green Witchcraft, the Book of Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, The Celtic book of the Dead, the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

Section 4: Any of the Dune novels

I'd apply the same standard to any other bookshelves I came across, including in governmental offices. wink

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: JSMelkiteOrthodoxy] #243944
07/09/07 06:55 PM
07/09/07 06:55 PM
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White Plains, N.Y.
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Zenovia Offline
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Dear Joe,

Our laws and sense of justice, have been formed through our Christian mind set. Just look at the difference between them and Sharia laws. That's why the Pope and the Orthodox leaders in the EU want to specify in the EU constitution that the basis of Western civilization is Christianity. The Turks though made their demands that if they do specify that in the constitution, they will not become a member. crazy

So much for that.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: Wondering] #243945
07/09/07 07:01 PM
07/09/07 07:01 PM
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White Plains, N.Y.
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Zenovia Offline
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Zenovia  Offline
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Quote
Section 3: Adventures Beyond of the Body, Simplified Magic, Celtic Magic, Earth Power, Modern Magick, Green Witchcraft, the Book of Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, The Celtic book of the Dead, the Egyptian Book of the Dead.


Dear Wondering,

W O W ! ! !


God Bless,

Zenovia

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: Zenovia] #243949
07/09/07 07:17 PM
07/09/07 07:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
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Georgia U.S.
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JSMelkiteOrthodoxy Offline
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Originally Posted by Zenovia
Dear Joe,

Our laws and sense of justice, have been formed through our Christian mind set. Just look at the difference between them and Sharia laws. That's why the Pope and the Orthodox leaders in the EU want to specify in the EU constitution that the basis of Western civilization is Christianity. The Turks though made their demands that if they do specify that in the constitution, they will not become a member. crazy

So much for that.

God Bless,

Zenovia


Zenovia,

Yes, You are right about that as long as we include the western Enlightenment movement as an equally important influence.

Joe

Re: Slidell painting (icon) draws ACLU legal fight [Re: Zenovia] #243959
07/09/07 08:07 PM
07/09/07 08:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,390
USA
Wondering Offline
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Wondering  Offline
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Originally Posted by Zenovia
Quote
Section 3: Adventures Beyond of the Body, Simplified Magic, Celtic Magic, Earth Power, Modern Magick, Green Witchcraft, the Book of Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, The Celtic book of the Dead, the Egyptian Book of the Dead.


Dear Wondering,

W O W ! ! !


God Bless,

Zenovia

Zenovia,

None of those are on my bookshelf! They come from someone else's list. It is quite shocking, and that's why I used it.

I wish we could describe ourselves as a Christian society still. I have no more of a problem with a worker having a Koran on her personal desk than I do of someone having a bangle bracelet on her wrist or yarmulke on his head. Someone showing that he has a faith he lives by is not offensive to me. In the same way, a judge with an icon, the Ten Commandments, or the Koran does not offend me. Only when the judges start overstepping their bounds and legislating from the court based on their personal beliefs am I concerned. We elect our legislators who form our laws for a reason. Their faith lives are something we can take into consideration. John F. Kennedy's Catholicism, Bush's "Christianity" (I know he's Methodist, but that wasn't the news' focus), and Mitt Romney's Mormonism have all recently been the topic of much discussion. Judges should not be making decisions based on their personal opinions, but should be deciding who has followed the law. If he does his job judiciously, I don't care if an icon or a Koran is on his desk.


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